Heps Cross Country 2011

Well, if it's true he needed medical attention after the race, then your point doesn't work very well does it. And when the winner wore long sleeve, gloves and hat ...

My Two Cents wrote:

I noticed something else that calls int question the coaching oversight of Harvard's runners. Take a look at the post-race pictures. Some of the Harvard runners were allowed to run under these extreme conditions with no protection whatsoever! They literally ran in a rainy, snowy mid-teens or lower wind chill with only their shorts and singlets. Shouldn't the coach have the foresight to ensure the runners come prepared with hats, gloves, not to mention arm warmers, mock tees, and other cold weather gear? I was taken aback by the thought of runners let loose into this maelstrom without a shred of protection.

Well, different things work for different people. Notice that the winning women's team was rather scantily clad:

And don't start with the "women have more body fat to keep them warm." They're not Chris Griffin. As I understand it, some (at least) of the Cornell women greased up with olive oil--seems to have kept them warm enough, without having to lug a lot of extra clothing around. More:

Granted, after a couple years in Ithaca this probably felt like a regular fall day to these women. Also granted, the men's race was probably a bit colder (at least in its effect), because the men were thoroughly soaked while warming up and in the starting phase of the race, then were hit by dropping temps (turning the rain to ice, then snow), and strong winds virtually throughout.

Sorry, forgot a link in previous post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vsdVBGJuG0

Anyway, the point of the post was that it's hard for outsiders to know what's going on. A few years ago the Princeton men's distance runners had a couple of disappointing Heps, and people were really lambasting the coach. Same coach now as then, and I notice people are a lot more complimentary. Funny how that works.

Similarly: for the Harvard men and Coach Saretsky (sp?) this season, I suspect this was just a perfect storm of things going wrong. That does happen occasionally. It's usually smart to avoid making a lot of conclusions, based on limited info...

Point well taken. But if I were a recruit considering the program this year, I think I'd either want some of that insider info or a better explanation than coincidence. There are a lot of colleges out there, and Harvard certainly has the brand name, but it would take a bit of convincing to get me to sign up to run there.

incredulous wrote:

C/m runner wrote:

You all are idiots. Harvard was there and ran. Five guys were recorded for finishing and they came 7th ( beating only Penn)

http://ivyleaguesports.com/sports/mxc/2011-12/releases/XCIvyChamps

Their top guy James leakos dropped due to an ongoing Achilles injury he has been dealing with for the last month. The first Harvard guy was 28 th, jakob lindaas. Oh and Adam cotton ran, coming 44th overall

I think these posts were a weak attempt at humor and not intended to be taken seriously.

But on a serious note - your number one runner has been dealing with Achilles problems for the past month and you run him anyway, in a pointless race with your B team? This just adds bad judgment to horrendous coaching. Hopefully the young man did not rupture the tendon. Something is very wrong with this whole picture.

In contrast Princeton's top recruit, Sam Pons was suffering a slight injury but could have run, prudent coaching kept him out of the race.

Hey Tigerfan,

Princeton can do that because he has so many studs stockpiled it is ridiculous. Others are forced to "man up for the team".

queries wrote:

Just curious - what sort of times are run on this Princeton course in good conditions?

This course appears to run about 25 seconds faster than the normal Van Cortlandt course in good conditions. 10th place at the HEPS meet is usually around 25:00 on the traditional VCP course, which would translate to around 24:35 on the Princeton course. 10th this year was 25:15.8, so it looks like the times were about 40 seconds slower than they would have been in ideal conditions, maybe 35 since the field started slowish (5:06 mile) - and that was before the weather got even nastier. Michael Maag ran 24:08 on this course in 2008, then ran 24:32 at HEPS at VCP. So subtract 35-40 seconds to get times for ideal weather at Princeton and subtract 10-15 seconds to get VCP times in ideal weather.

I am an Ivy grad living in the city. Obviously there were many great things about the race on Saturday despite the weather, but did anyone else notice the masses of people there from Columbia. I heard they brought two fan buses. They were going nuts everywhere. It felt like we were at VCP again. They all seemed to have so much fun. Made me wish for a moment I had gone there.

I'm sure all Ivy fans would be interested in reading:

http://instride.org/archives/1021

Leave this right here. wrote:

I'm sure all Ivy fans would be interested in reading:

http://instride.org/archives/1021

Thanks for the link--great piece!

kind of a columbia fan now wrote:

...did anyone else notice the masses of people there from Columbia. I heard they brought two fan buses. They were going nuts everywhere. It felt like we were at VCP again.

They added a huge amount to the race!--but they weren't quite "everywhere."

One thing I enjoy doing (as a spectator) in some races is to go to a really out-of-the-way part of the course, as I did for part of the time on Saturday. I got on the back side of that far loop, and there was *nobody* else--besides the passing runners--within sight or hearing. Makes you really feel like your cheering makes a difference. (Not that it *does*, necessarily--but you feel that way.)

In the women's race, at least, I ended up ~~1500m from the finish, which gave me a chance to see that Cornell had lost the race: their fifth/sixth runners were maybe 30secs behind their fourth, which is just a killer in races that were as evenly matched as this one. I "enthusiatically" informed the duo that they were fifth/sixth (though I bet they knew this already), and kept quiet about the gap.

When I got to the finish (that's one drawback of OOTW spectating--you don't get to see the finish, but then your individual voice probably wouldn't register on that final straightaway in any case), I was simply astounded to learn that Cornell's fifth (a miler/1000m runner in track) came in only about 10secs behind her teammates, and ~17secs ahead of their sixth (who had a great race, and was passing people herself). Having seen how much of a deficit Parker'd had to make up gave me a really visceral appreciation of her accomplishment.

BRF wrote:

Leave this right here. wrote:

I'm sure all Ivy fans would be interested in reading:

http://instride.org/archives/1021

Thanks for the link--great piece!

Donn's a good writer. Cool website in general. :-) Saw Kyle Merber has done a few entries on there as well, but nothing yet about last weekend

kind of a columbia fan now wrote:

I am an Ivy grad living in the city. Obviously there were many great things about the race on Saturday despite the weather, but did anyone else notice the masses of people there from Columbia. I heard they brought two fan buses. They were going nuts everywhere. It felt like we were at VCP again. They all seemed to have so much fun. Made me wish for a moment I had gone there.

Thanks for letting us know of a potential NCAA violation. If this truly was marketed as a fans bus, then they will get away with it. If it's an athlete's only bus that is being fraudulently advertised as a fans' bus, then it's a violation as it would be an extra benefit.

Nice highlight video of the mens race up on Flotrack:

http://www.flotrack.org/video/512743-OCT-29-2011-HEPS-XC-Mens-8k

Great link.

Awesome, awesome video.

lagsun wrote:

Nice highlight video of the mens race up on Flotrack:

http://www.flotrack.org/video/512743-OCT-29-2011-HEPS-XC-Mens-8k

Nice--thanks for link! Hepstrack.com now has more links to photos, including those of the "bathers" at Dead Man's Curve.

Meet Management wrote:

Thanks for letting us know of a potential NCAA violation. If this truly was marketed as a fans bus, then they will get away with it. If it's an athlete's only bus that is being fraudulently advertised as a fans' bus, then it's a violation as it would be an extra benefit.

You obviously do not attend one of the schools that participated in the meet.

Meet Management wrote:

Thanks for letting us know of a potential NCAA violation. If this truly was marketed as a fans bus, then they will get away with it. If it's an athlete's only bus that is being fraudulently advertised as a fans' bus, then it's a violation as it would be an extra benefit.

Are you saying athletes can not be driven to a meet in a bus? How the hell does the NCAA expect the teams to get there rickshaw??

expert troll feeder wanted wrote:

Meet Management wrote:

Thanks for letting us know of a potential NCAA violation. If this truly was marketed as a fans bus, then they will get away with it. If it's an athlete's only bus that is being fraudulently advertised as a fans' bus, then it's a violation as it would be an extra benefit.

Are you saying athletes can not be driven to a meet in a bus? How the hell does the NCAA expect the teams to get there rickshaw??

No, I think he meant that fans and athletes aren't supposed to ride together on the same bus...