Loks like I have to revise my training thanks to Salazar

5:05.775

inchicago wrote:

15:50 is NOT 5:15 pace you moron!!

15:50 = 5:07

Nope, try again.

Alp! wrote:

5:05.775

Yes, so the OP, relative to Mo, would run just over 7 minute miling.

But that is just a general figure. Anyone who tries to do recovery runs at a specific pace is obviously overthinking the training. It has to be done by feel.

It's good to see you are posting again Brian. Hope things are going well out in Colorado.

you don't need fancy formulas. I ran under 1530 in hs, and i dont think i ever ran above 7min pace on a run, 730 is very slow. I looked at the mcmillan calculater for that and it says 614-644, which I think is perfect. on my easy days where im feeling very slow, its around 644, and on regular-fast days its 610-620. so I think to improve, you should not cut back on miles too much (maybe a little at least for a short time period though) but definately try to break 7 on all your runs at least. especially the long run.

Here is the bottom line. What works for someone (the "elite" lets say) will not work for everyone. Most will break down and get injured.

The fact is we can argue about science and this training and that but the fact is TALENT (genetics,etc.) are the biggest factor here. You got 'em or you don't. And the reality is you can take a highly elite runner, and do almost anything with them and if they buy in and believe it they will succeed.

Talent trumps hard work every time. The talented that work hard are the elite few.

First, you need to know exactly when you do these 10-12 milers at that pace. Not every run that is not a workout should be a very slow pace. Recovery runs and some long runs should. Most other runs should be at a good steady pace where you get a good workout without depriving your body from recovery.

I was a 15'20 guy running 6'15-6'40 on my runs between my hard workouts (mile repeats, 1000's, 800's, etc.). But we had recovery days where we just went out on a jog. 7-9 milers at 6'45-7'00 pace. These runs were inserted into our training plans when we had been running hard after a few days. Maybe once a week, sometimes twice when we were tapering for a race.

It all depends how many miles you are running at a slower pace. Most of your runs will be at 75-95% effort in hard workouts and 65-75% on steady runs (7-10 milers). Anything slower can be done when you really need the recovery or after 3-4 days of hard work.

Fit this into your training. Plus, everything that you do besides your easy runs also makes a difference. Like what paces you use during hard workouts, what you do for hard sessions, and how often. Check that out too. It may be other parts of your training also.

Exactly. Patience during base building creates a tremendous aerobic engine.

I'm just curious how many people actually know the exact distances of your easy runs? Are they all flat? Does wind and weather not also factor in to pace?

runner39 wrote:

Malmo, what's your opinion on pace of easy runs, just listen to body? The McMillan calculator, good or bad? your logs show a lot of runs faster than 6min pace yet you were not as fast as Mo Farah (not meant to be offensive)

thanks

1) "Easy" is a feel, not a pace. Comparing your easy pace to someone elses easy pace is pointless. Some run easy runs slower than others. Some run them faster. No news here.

2) Calculators are only someone else's opinion. I've seen McMillens calculator. It's not useful.

3) Runners run faster than others, runners run slower than others. No news here.

Farah is a 3:33/13:10/26:46 guy who is perfectly built for running, and ran a 60:23 HM on a downhill course with a tailwind after years of consistent training. I was much slower than that, yet ran 61:43 on 4 months training after a long layoff due to injury. Perhaps as Farah adjusts to faster training paces he'll run a HM in the 58:30-59:00 range? (not meant to be offensive)

thanks Malmo, if your race times are getting slower with more training, eg. more mileage and interval times are getting slower, eg. workouts from a year ago are slower with overall mileage higher, for the last two years I have been around 70-75/week and race times getting slower, PR's were set 2+ years ago with weekly mileage 40-45/ week, any advice

meant to add can run all day at what I feel as easy pace but when increase paces for workouts find it very difficult and like I said above workout times are slower than in past

No, not really. You need to find what works for you. Farah also did the "Moroccan" thing with El G back in the day (speed up to 4:40-5:00mpm daily) and got injured if I recall. In other words, he's been all over the map. Figure out what works for you and don't try to copy the next star...chances are, you're made very differently and need different things.

Malmo, you forgot about the 12:57.94 that Farah saved for Zurich last year...

I would do neither throw away the watch on at least a couple of you runs and just enjoy them be that faster or slower

+ don't do all your non w/o runs at same pace anyway mix it up a bit and make sure you do some slow proper recovery runs

long, slow runs make long, slow runners. it's as simple as that. if you want to get faster you can't be doing all your training runs at 7:30 pace if you want to be a sub 15 runner. there are definitely days to go slower. one that i always reserve for slow running is the day after a long run. but i dont see any reason to lock yourself into any other slow days. the body will let you run at whatever pace it is comfortable with on a given day. i often feel my best the days after workouts so i just go with it.

I had a coach that preached the Bill Bowerman hard/easy ethic. 2-3 intense workouts a week and jogging mileage in between. That was 25 years ago and I'm sure the top coaches today realize that style of training is lacking.

Yeah, I ran my fastest on Dellinger's program, which 90% Bowerman.

will wrote:

Yeah, I ran my fastest on Dellinger's program, which 90% Bowerman.

Yeah me too. But when I was in college 13:35 was a good mark for a sub-8:50 hs 2 miler. Not today.