50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Dave,

Your AG% Goals Are Stellar. And I would never bet against you.

I've only hit 94% for 800/1500 back in my M45-47 banner years. I did hit 90% again in the 800 last summer. But, hell man, I can never get close to 90 for anything longer than One stinking mile.

I'm at 107k lifetime miles and counting.

Here's a fun fact. How many races have you run? I think my count is around 1000. 1001 is you count that freakin' redux M60 1500 at USATF Outdoor Natty's last summer; stopped us at 1100 meters only make us line up again!

How many races Mike F?

KP

Correction... stopped us at 700m (2 to go). Still, we had to race 2200m at 1500m pace!

What do you think about a marathon at 85 Fahrenheit at start. Just looked at yesterday temp at 6pm and it was 86F. Next week is predicted to be the same. I've always said I would never start a marathon if the temp was above 80F. On a positive note, it is much cooler than last year which was around 95F.

We are driving past the race on our 10 hour drive home where we are now. Figure just do it and don't be bothered with the slow pace. Figure I can win enough to pay for a few days at a hotel at the race site and make it into a mini vacation with an inconvenient race thrown in. Not a chance I'm going to be able to hang with another 55 yo that beat me by 3 minutes a few weeks ago finishing in 2:43 and change. Unlike myself, heat only slightly slows him down.

BigMango,

Sounds like an extreme challenge. May I advise you to think twice before making a decision.

As you already mentioned, it very much depends on a particular person. And at 85F it may just put health at risk especially as the impact is characterised by a non-linear curve in the end.

On the other hand, you are an experienced marathoner and perhaps regular consumption of enough (special) drinks will mitigate the risk....

All the best!

Our masters superstar Lavinia just ran a sharp 25.08 at a Parkrun at age 78. I don't know much about age grading but I am guessing that is a 100 plus % run.

'mopac wrote:

Our masters superstar Lavinia just ran a sharp 25.08 at a Parkrun at age 78. I don't know much about age grading but I am guessing that is a 100 plus % run.

Lavinia's time = 94.5% That is pretty crazy

SOmewhat related:

I am leaving in a couple minutes to go run our local Parkrun - Currently 13 degrees with wind chill of -1. Definitely just a hard tempo run - Times go out the window on mornings like these, but better than trying to run moderately hard and doing it completely alone.

SoapBox

An age group WR should be 100 percent for the first year of that age group then go up from there. So if a 78 year old sets a WR in the 75 AG it would be over 100 percent. Then you open the can of worms. If the 78 year old faster than WR then record is soft fair enough but adjusting the standard is NOT IMO the way to go. Just let time sort things out get rid of the fudge factors at best and let the records set the standard

Fun with numbers

W78 25:04 5k Parkrun oops shoulda been 08

Proposed 2022

0.6436

22:02.52

87.93

W78 5000 Track 2006/2010 factors Howard Grubb

0.5537

26:02

103.83

W78 Road 2006/2010 factors Howard Grubb

.5776

25:37

102.22

Current World Records from wikipedia

F70 20:56.13(Angela Copson)

F75 23:30.93(Lavina Petrie) proposed 2022 100 percent 22:02.52

F80 25:40.14(Yoko Nakano)

F85 27:38

F90 54:46

the new AG standards are tough, but most likely proving accurate. A 2:00.58 800 at age 47= 1:50.03, 91.71%.

It will be interesting to see if M65 Paul Forbes goes 2:13.13 this season =1:45.66. PR 95.51%. I think he will. Age group records will continue to fall and some events are more competitive than others. It is looking like 90% in the 800m in a few age groups is more National class than World class.

M65 800 Standard is 2:07.138 WR(100.91)/0.7937 factor

Current WR Earl Fee 2:14 set in 1995 was just broken 2:13

Great job by a guy who ran 1:45 in his prime.

So what does this tell ya? THE RECORD WAS SOLID

How long will it take for a 65 year old man to run 2:07?

Well that is 6 seconds faster.

How long will it take for an open 800 male to run 6 seconds faster than 1:40.91?

1:34? WTF who came up with this Joe Biden?

Do I GIVE A Fck about the hair cut? Not really I been using 2000 AGs since well 2000 and will continue . I do CARE about HOW these tables came about.

Charlie wrote:

M65 800 Standard is 2:07.138 WR(100.91)/0.7937 factor

Current WR Earl Fee 2:14 set in 1995 was just broken 2:13

Great job by a guy who ran 1:45 in his prime.

So what does this tell ya? THE RECORD WAS SOLID

How long will it take for a 65 year old man to run 2:07?

Well that is 6 seconds faster.

How long will it take for an open 800 male to run 6 seconds faster than 1:40.91?

1:34? WTF who came up with this Joe Biden?

Do I GIVE A Fck about the hair cut? Not really I been using 2000 AGs since well 2000 and will continue . I do CARE about HOW these tables came about.

Not following you? Why would anyone have to run 6 seconds faster in the 800m?

There are no 65 year old Kipketers or Rudishas still racing the 800m - if there were I'm sure we'd see a 2:07.13. Maybe the confusion is that the current WR - is always 100% at the elite level on the calculator. I'm not sure that is the case for all events, but I haven't checked. You can compare records other ways as well, like using the IAAF points tables.

I don't personally think Rudisha's time is 100%, maybe 1:40/100 seconds should be 100%, but I'm not complaining about it and no one cares what I think. For the record Kipketer probably would have run 1:40.7 this if he didn't blaze a 58.2 first lap in his 1:41.24. The men's 400H record of 45.94, now there is a time that should be closer to 100% !!

You are free to use whatever AG calculator you wish, no one will stop you. As to when a 65 year old will run 2:07- who knows, but why would that have any bearing on the AG Calculator? We know what times will most likely will get you a medal at a regional, national and world class championships. The reality is that the calculator is just a guide to compare one's own running performances over time. Probably best not to get to upset over it. Masters runners know which events, records, M/F performances are a bit softer than others. Call me crazy, but I don't think the M75 Steeple record is on par with say a 1:49.86 800m M45 record. M75 steeple shouldn't be 100% just because it happens to be the current WR. By the way it shows that a performance of 1:49.86 equivalent to 1:41.79. A performance that is 4 seconds better than what the athlete ran in his prime. So maybe the AG calculator is still a bit to generous. Time will tell and it will be updated and adjusted again in the future.

I wouldn't rule out an Anthony Whiteman racing a 2:07-2:08 800m in 15 years at age 65 if he was so inclined.

May we all just keep setting age group PR's- for each of that is 100%!

Greetings, fellow 50+ers and an early Happy MLK Day to you!

A combination of injury and weather made this a most unremarkable week for me. As you may recall, last week I reported a lower calf / high Achilles issue. Well, that continues to be an issue. Normally I would not be thrilled with the arrival of sub-zero windchills, but they did help make it easier for me to skip Tuesday’s scheduled run. After 3 days off, I gave it a go again on Thursday. The first mile or so was fine, but the soreness and tightness returned shortly after that. I have not run since, thanks again in part to the dangerous wind chills. I have been walking a mile, or two, every day without much pain, so the hope is that I can build the running back up gradually over the next week or so. Meanwhile you can put me down for about 8.5 miles for the week. Ugh.

Sun: 43’ CR; body wt ex + med ball routine

Mon-Wed: off

Thu: 45’ total running (3)

Fri-Sun: off

Best to most!

Got in to orthopedist

MRI set up for January 26th

Tried to run just a little.

Knee locked up at 2.61 mile point.

Hobbled 20 miles for the week.

Don’t think I’ll be able to squeeze out one more mile before whatever treatment the orthopedist decides.

My plan was to hobble a couple miles the morning of the surgery ha

Now, I have to have my groceries delivered this morning

I’ll be back by spring!

Robert E. Lee, sending good thoughts for a prompt diagnosis...be sure to have them check peroneal / fibular nerve which runs along the back outside of knee...releasing that may provide relief.

My week was a good one. In fact, the best since surgeries.

Fourth consecutive 30+ mile week (33) including a near PB on my weekly hill run...an 18 minute long grind.

Also a solid 6 mile anerobic threshold run and the best time on my out & back 8 miler since 2017...progress.

As well, this past Wednesday made 50 training days in a row...enough to constitute a mini 'streak'...means nothing, I know, but stuff like that keeps me amused ...and I dig the discipline factor.

Hoping that YOUR week was swell...will look forward to hearing results.

your pal,

MF

Hope your orthopedist is able to help.

Big day for American U. with our alumna Keira (Carlstrom) D'Amato setting marathon American Record. There's a large picture of her [among other great AU Eagles] on a fence at one end of the school's track -- maybe we can add a caption documenting new accomplishment.

My own week was less eventful -- took up wordle on the recommendation of our older daughter and trained as follows:

M 1:00

Tu 1:20

W 1:00 with 12 X 1:30 hard (1:00 jog)

Th 55:00

F 1:45 double

Sa 1:35 with 5 X 2:00 moderately hard uphills (3:00 jog down)

Su 1:00

have a great week,

Dave

'

SoapBox 2 shots of mRNA when it was useful to ME in My Choice but

did not fall for the obsolete booster BS bet Mod and Phiz would like to bury Omi ruined their fat stack of billions and exposed the corruption To BOOST

Slang. to engage in stealing, especially shoplifting. noun. an upward shove or raise; lift. an increase; rise: There's been a tremendous boost in food prices.

Training wise still have a slight hangover sciatica but is improving added some stuff mainly lower back stuff pos referred pain

3 runs 50,40,35 minutes easy easy 3 mile Heeeeel upper end of zone 2 felt GREAT first mile is 11 percent grade;) last half is mild gps says 7:07 pace and it felt easy so I guess I am still pretty fit.

bike same hill standing on pedals down to 25 minutes def at lactate threshold maybe above felt really good before during and after so I am formulating a poa plan of attack for May 7 3000 I really want to race at 100 percent effort while fit.

Long term goal ag mile at Hayward after I turn 80....Every good thing starts as a dream

I ran 21 miles this week (down from 30 last week,) over 4 runs.

The highlight was 10.2 in the "Annadel" park at 8:59 pace--half uphill then come back down.

I'm 2.5 months back into this very gradual build. I have not settled on a race schedule yet.

Teenager home from school with a fever impacted my week, they got a negative "home test" after the mandated time and were able to return to school, and I returned to running and drawing as per usual.

Big Mango, the hot marathon does not sound fun, but this is a subjective statement. I note your confidence. I read about the rolled/salted bread balls you fuel on (and how gross they can get) and barked out a laugh – but it's genius.

Anyway, the 6:13/mile training pace is wild to me, you are clearly eating the right thing.

During my best marathon I ate about 5-6 apple slices, 5x GU gels (one every 4-5 miles, and I took a bit of sports drink maybe 5-6 times. It kept me rolling and I was able to pick up the pace over the last 2.5 miles or so.

'mopac, good luck with hamstrings and hips, I flirt with these problems! For me, avoiding sugar and red wine actually helps avoid this issue. Of course I LOVE SUGAR AND RED WINE! Only one glass a day, but at 64 years it can pose minor problems and mess up my sleep.

KDdx I like the question, "how many races have you run." The closest I can answer, from the time I was 15 - 20 years old I ran approx. 125 track races (Mile relay, 2-mile relay, 880, 1000 yard, 1 mile, 1500m, 2 mile.) I won most of the high school races, I won maybe 5 college races (weed and beer got in the way – the 70s y'know... )

Have a great week, stay healthy!

With XC racing season finally in the books, I started the base rebuilding process this week. As I told someone recently, my plan for the next three months is simple, run long, run hills, run slow. 53 miles and 3,885' of climbing for the week -

M- 6mi walk

T- 8mi hills 10:38/mi

W- 6mi walk AM, 3mi walk PM

Th- 8mi hills 10:45/mi

F- 6mi walk

S- 8mi hills 9:58/mi

Su- 8mi trails with my son 9:55/mi

Good running to all!

M50

Spent my ego time this week with:

Mo 7 miles easy, 5x100m with jog back

Tu 30 min jumps and drills uphill, 6x60m uphill, 2x150m uphill

We 7 miles easy, 5x100m with jog back

Th off, too busy

Fr 7 miles easy, 5x100m with jog back

Sa WU, 8x300m uphill with jog down, CD, total of all about 7 miles

Su 90 min recovery pace in the hills

Friday nicely refreshed, Saturday nice stride uphill, Sunday felt as usual :)

BR

M- 60:00 on treadmill

T- 10M (5x800uphill, 1:00 rest, downhill, 1:00 rest)

W- 40:00 treadmill

Th- work

F- 7M with hills; last 3M @ MP

St- 15M with lots on Boston-like hills

S- 60:00 treadmill

Enjoy the week