50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Right on Cdb.

Time for a quality taper 10 days to Ames. Feeling as good as I can be from yesterday's early morning track session.

100 @ no-time but a warm up,

1000 @ 3:12pt. Happy about this 2 1/2 lapper. 7min rest break

400 @ 74 3min rest

400 @73 3min rest

200 @ 33 2min rest

200 @ 33 2min rest

'mopac wrote:

Just turn up and race. No need to add to your training to race 5 k and risk a training injury. Start at the back of the pack and work your way through.

You are right! I am slowly learning that by quibbling over trying to shave off a few seconds for a race I’m missing out on being with my old running friends and enjoying the experience. I’m sure it’s my ego, as I have to laugh at how much strife I go through to run, what the younger me would consider laughably slow times. The adolescent me felt that a 5K of 16:00 was effectively the same as 35 mins. If you didn’t break 16 you could not call yourself a runner. Adolescent me was a jerk.

Charlie wrote:

Hey CDB that 10x400 at goal mile pace is not gonna happen;)

Off base need to add some vo2max as well as running economy

Past few years one workout a week:

3 weeks of 4x400 a bit faster than current mile effort then shorten the rest

easy week

2 weeks of 2 x 800 faster under 3 minutes rest to 120hr

easy week

1200 meter TT with the first lap way too hard goal of sub 4:30

Race

Just compiled my FIRST streak age mile time location

60 5:51 Hayward Classic

61 5:47 Hayward Classic

62 5:52 South Eugene TT video

63 5:53 South Eugene TT video

64 5:47 South Eugene TT video

65 5:xx Probably a TT at South Eugene

Workout #2 16x100 R5seconds avg 19.High 800 effort barefoot on grass(running not smoking)

The #1 left me wanting more much better than wanting less

SOS is not my forte so I whipped up an on the fly workout

Gotta say yeah buddy two thumbs up.

DragonFlys , Big Thanks to CDB for the heads up post. Getting them on the 23rd can't wait maybe I will be one of the hyper responders yeah seems like some runners get more out of the tech than others.

Igy it is all about the pebax

Charlie,

Would you ever consider carbon plate over pebax plate? If so, why and under what distance? If not, why?

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Charlie,

Would you ever consider carbon plate over pebax plate? If so, why and under what distance? If not, why?

Igy

Most of the super shoes have a carbon plate and a pebax midsole.

400 maybe 800 but not the Victory. WAG I think the air bags slow you down and absorb energy.

DF has a plastic plate that might work real well...

Have any of the pros been using the Victory?

Carbon Fiber Plates

The greatest amount of attention outside of the research world has focused on the carbon fiber plates. Despite what one would logically think, the carbon fiber plates have been shown to only improve running economy and performance by 1% (Roy & Stefanyshyn, 2006). Even then, research from the same lab the Jared Ward is part of has suggested that the optimal stiffness of the footwear and these plates are completely subject dependent (Mcleod et al., 2020). That means the optimal stiffness required by each person of the shoe and plate varies depending on their individual biomechanics (and other factors). So despite what everyone gets excited about, the carbon fiber plates play a very small part in the performance improvements as demonstrated by the currently available research.

Charlie,

Thanks for that piece; explains a lot. Some good videos Dragonfly versus Victory. Since I have the Nike first generation flats, I would be more interested in the Victory for 400 and 800 meters. When wearing the flat I can easily get a second or two improvement over a hard 100 meters. I have been unable to tolerate a spike as I have aged, but perhaps one of these would be different?

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Charlie,

Thanks for that piece; explains a lot. Some good videos Dragonfly versus Victory. Since I have the Nike first generation flats, I would be more interested in the Victory for 400 and 800 meters. When wearing the flat I can easily get a second or two improvement over a hard 100 meters. I have been unable to tolerate a spike as I have aged, but perhaps one of these would be different?

Igy

The DF looks /works more like a flat. The AZV is a bad boy , on your toes!

Kinda funny they put the pebax in the heel airbags under the forefoot where all the action is.

WAG sprinting generates power levels that require a less bouncy midsole IOW the pebax in the AZV is a gimmick.

Orient - Nice race and it is amazing how us older runners are hanging in there. Unlike yourself, heat slows me down 1-2 minutes in 10ks and won’t even attempt marathons above 85 F. Only get a few races each year in the mid 70’s and it's hard to know beforehand. It is almost like I’m a different runner when temps drop below 75 F.

Charlie, read your treadmill posts. Without a treadmill I would not be running today. Some of my past non running injuries made it impossible to run on the roads for weeks to months and very slow runs at steep inclines were great for rehab. Very little impact force and I would put my muscles through hellish workouts as I got stronger.

Across the pond, Last Saturday's WO is impressive!

Forgot to post last week. Busy with finding a home builder. Been locked down in a part of Thailand that doesn’t see any foreign tourists but I find it amazing. Decided to build a tiny home with a huge patio. The girlfriend has a nice piece of property with a big fish pond and a few rice paddies. It is so easy to build in this area. No permits and labor is easy to find.

37 miles this week with another 40 walking on the treadmill at 20%. Miss the gym where I could hammer the inclines at speed. My travel treadmill maxes out at about 6 mph which is very hard at 20% but more speed would help.

Todays hard session - 2 miles at 5:44, 1 mile @ 5:35, and .16 mile @ 5:05 ( had to bolt into the trees- last night’s spicy food). Seems like I always have issues with my workouts here. Dogs, rain, etc.

Also ran a 28 minute tempo through constant rollers. Only 6:30 pace but felt like 5:50.

Good luck to everyone running in Iowa!

A taper week for me.

7/13 8 easy

7/14 5 easy fb 6x100 meter strides

7/15 3k TT on the track 10:28. Ran the first mile to slow(5:40). Felt good all the way. Not that tired when finished.

7/16 8 miles hilly easy

7/17 5 miles easy fb drills and 4 strides

7/18 3x400 with 100 jog btw @86, 400 jog, 3x400 @83 with 200 jog, 400 jog, 3x400 79-80 with 300 jog. Felt great!

5,000 in Ames in four days. A bit concerned with the 10,000 on Saturday. There will be about 30 of us in my heat including younger and older women. (At least that's what the schedule says with male and female running at 7:30). A bit concerned I may be running in lane two for a lot of the race.

Some very very hot weather in the desert has kept me mostly inside the gym with the treadmill, rower, and elliptical. I do venture outside for some 6 am workouts but it doesn't cool down at night in the desert and it can still be over 90 degrees when I start. So I'm just holding it together as best I can until we get a cooling trend which should start next week. ...we'll dip under 100!

In other news, Usain Bolt ran a promotional 800 meter race and did it in 2:40. 2:40!! Dang, the last time I did a pentathlon and ran the 800, I was within 2 seconds of him. Sad effort, really. Hope the cash he pocketed was worth it.

Learned about the new shoe technology from Charlie and CDB. I would consider spikes for the 800 meter racing, even though all my masters bests including cross country were in racing flats. Jack Daniels did a study that there was no significant difference between racing flats and spikes.

This week was steady, improving speed, but stalled endurance. A reflection of my consistent inconsistency.

Sunday: Off

Monday: 1.5 miles easy; drills; 4 x 700m interval pace @ 3:30 / 300m walk; 800m easy/walk

Tuesday: 2,000 yard swim

Wednesday: 1.5 miles easy; drills; 3 x ( 100m repetition pace / 200m walk; 200m repetition pace / 300m walk; 300m repetition pace ) 300m walk between sets; 100m = 19, 20, 21; 200m 43, 44, 45; 300m = 69, 72, 74; 800m easy/walk

Thursday: 60:00 spin; mile rowing

Friday: 2,000 yard swim

Saturday: 1.5 mikes easy; 4 x 200m repetition pace @ 22, 22, 21, 21 / 50m walk; 200m walk; 2,400m tempo @ 12:56; 800m walk; 1600m tempo @ 8:27; 800m walk

Best wishes to those racing in Ames, and everyone else have a good week (even the Best to Most Guy).

Igy

Another decent week for me. I was feeling tired at the beginning of the week and took a couple of lower mileage days. I finished the week well this morning pushing my 10 miler a bit. 5 weeks ago I ran this 10 mile trail loop at 9:30/mi. This morning I ran it at 8:14/mi. 48 miles for the week -

M- 5mi walk with strides

T- 4mi very easy 12:46/mi

W- 11mi with AM 4mi 9:45/mi, Lunch 7mi 9:14/mi

Th- 4mi walk with strides

F- 7mi walk with strides

S- 7mi trails with my son 9:09/mi

Su- 10mi trails 8:14/mi

Good luck to all racing in Iowa. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

Just when I think things can’t get any worse, they do.

After last week’s backpack trip I took two days strictly on the bike, then went out for a walk on Monday. I tried to force myself to take a “normal” heel-striking stride when walking. Big mistake. My left forefoot and left knee both started to hurt considerably after about a mile. Second mistake: I toughed it out and finished the 7-mile route. For the rest of the day my foot/ankle/knee were swollen and so sore I could hardly walk.

It has now been six days and while the knee has settled down, my left forefoot is still so painful that I can barely walk on a level surface. I have to stay entirely on my toes—I can’t tolerate striking the heel and rolling through the foot. I can’t even walk my dogs to the end of the street, and hobbling from my car to my office is difficult. I can ride a bike with no problem (no flexion of the foot in a rigid bike shoe), go up stairs without pain (entirely on my toes), and walk backward pretty much OK. I don’t know whether this is some sort of overuse injury or whether the rheumatoid arthritis has now moved into my foot, but it is really kicking my butt.

Thank goodness for the bike. I put in about 180 miles this week, and went to the gym all but one day to do strength work, none of which is bothered by the foot. But if I can’t get this resolved pretty soon, backpacking season will be gone. We have only five weeks left until the start of fall semester classes.

BigMango, your post about being able to run on a treadmill at steep angles piqued my interest. I plan to go to the gym today and try setting a treadmill to the steepest available slope, and see how walking on it feels.

SpikezZ, are you in the Phoenix area? I always wondered how anyone could manage to be active there. Inland central California is hot but the early mornings always get below 80 and usually at or below 70. Even at 80 I feel like I’m melting once the sun comes up.

Igy, I understand Idaho is due for a big-time heat wave over the next couple of days. Take care.

Nice 10 miler…..

amkelley,

Best to you on the biomechanical issues.

Nasty here this morning. You can smell the forrest fires blowing into the area. Yesterday worked in the yard after running, was pretty dehydrated. At least yesterday the air quality was tolerable. If I backpack this year it will be after Labor Day when the temperatures and air quality will be much nicer.

Igy

Cdb, You are so set to rock n roll in Ames. Your hay-in-the-barn is primo!

Me? I'm pleased to crack the 5:00 barrier this morning for 1500m to get that out of the way. 4:56.62 for age 61. Again, "solo" as three college open guys and one 31-year-old (masters?) were gone with the crack of the gun. I just tried to run my race and can say with certainty my quads did not explode today. I can now simply focus on RACEWITHCONFIDENCE versus people in two loaded fields; as National Championships should be.

Kpdx KPGa

wow, great job on the 1500. sounds like you're both ready to roll in Ames.

good week here aside from heat wave

M 1:10 with 5 X 4:00 (2:30 jog) at 5k effort (unmeasured on roads/sidewalks-- tree clearing project to make way for new high school cut off my shortcut route to track, and by that point I didn't have time to take the long way around and still get back to drive my wife to optometrist apptmt.)

Tu 1:00 + 1:00 x-t

W 1:20 with drills and strides

Th 2:00

F 1:00

Sa 1:00 with parkrun 5k 19:23 (6th, 1st per age grading)

Su 1:40

I was a "parkrun tourist" yesterday, trying a new [to me] one b/c it is on a certified, flat course, and I wanted to get a legit time as sort of a report card 1/3 of the way into half-marathon training. No hamstring issues. Went out too fast for the conditions (warm, humid) (9:30 at turnaround, 9:53 coming back), but overall pleased.

Also, at the risk of bragging, I stayed up till the very end of Game 5 Suns/Bucks last night, 11:30 pm, about 2 hours past my bedtime. Heroic effort. When I retire I should move back to Pacific time. I went to USC for grad school and LOVED early evening games, NFL on at 10:00 am sunday, etc.. Much better fit for me.

have a great week,

Dave

CDB and KPdx are red hot peaking at the right time very cool

OGII too ready for XC

Me well not razor sharp but feeling fit say sharp enough to cut warm butter

6 Week buildup to sub 6 attempt 2021 workouts numbered

Switched to daily 40 minute ez jogs in sand or on tm vs longer harder 2 times a week

Week 1

7-12 #1 Old wavy 22,21,44,43,79 with full recovery the 79 felt like 800 race pace

7-16 #2a 16x100 5sec recovery old football field average 19.high felt good finished at 180hr

7-17#2b 4x20 seconds 200/400 effort 40 seconds jog , 7 minute progression on bark , alley with last 400 on asphalt 1:32 200/200 50/42 HR 168 60 seconds later dropped to 120 felt great

KPdx, CdB: great to know you are so well fit for the next week, gentlemen! Best of luck to you and others who who are going to race there in Ames. Looks like some national records will be cracked!

amkelley: all my sympathies, you seem to suffer for such a long period.... Good that bike helps, but I think that playing with settings of an elliptical trainer would be quite helpful too. One of my friends spent nearly half a year on an elliptical and then was surprisingly quick to re-gain the form when he was able/allowed to run.

All the best to everybody!