50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Rtype wrote:

Anyway, what’s old is new if enough time passes.

A statement that rings so true to me, although in a different context. I have been an active scientist in my general field of study for over 40 years. It continues to amaze me how many things that were fundamental knowledge to folks educated in the 1970s and 1980s are utterly foreign to those educated after 2000. They keep rediscovering things we all knew 30 years ago (in addition to some things that are genuinely new). So it goes.

Early supplemental training for track athletes could be described as Cross Fit. Same could be said of much of the supplemental training done by the Soviet Bloc 50 years ago, or German Turnverine 200 years ago. As far as distance running goes most of the innovation has come from technological improvements; for example- shoes, tracks, Alter-G treadmills, altitude tents, physical therapy, and of course PEDs. Most of the latest trends on training appear more variations of past ideas. I do think Jack Daniels work was a breakthrough by systematizing training variables. If you bought Running Formula you would need little else.

I bought myself a copy of Running Formula and my son stole it and took it to NZ :>)

old guy II,

I have both a first and second edition. I believe their is a third. I actually prefer the simplicity of one.

I was thinking of asking you this question when out for my walk today. Recap for me your walk routine, i.e., days/week, pace, length and frequency of run segment. Lastly, do you just where your joggers?

Igy

Alan55 wrote:

M65, 5' 4", 127lb. Stocky.

Huh? Stocky? Well...if you're stocky I must be massive at 5-7, 170 (M59). It's funny that I'm doing more weightlifting now (played college football and did about 10 yrs of competitive powerlifting back in the day), I'm considered a "little guy" among the sea of gorillas in the free weight area of the gym that I belong to. And lot of these cats who are in their 30s & 40s are huge - six footers going well over 225 lbs! Granted they don't run at all and some of the older ones are on TRT - but it's intimidating being around such big guys. They like to kid around calling me "shorty" & "big midget" but I don't know what they would call me if I was 127 lbs. Lol.

Igy, I have varied a bit on my walk day/run day training regimen since I started it at the beginning of 2019, but it mostly either has been a straight walk one day, run the next day program or a 7-day walk one day, run the next day, do something different or rest on Sunday program. The walk itself has been a consistent 7 miles with a stride every 1/2 mile starting at the end of the first mile. For the strides I try to smoothly accelerate to the maximum turnover rate that I can generate, hold it for a couple of seconds and then glide out of it. I think they usually end up being about 120-150 meters. My walking pace is right around 15:00/mi so I am getting about 7 minutes recovery between strides. Total time for the walk is around 1:45. On shoes I always have been pretty minimalist. Right now, and for as long as it stays warm enough, I walk exactly one mile to the beach in a beat up pair of NB 1400v2s, take the shoes off, and do the next 5 miles on the beach barefoot, then put the shoes back on to walk home. In the Winter I have a slightly rolling mostly sidewalk route and I wear whatever my current lightweight trainers are for it. Maybe more detail than you wanted here:>)

I recently looked at my logs, and my best stretch of training was when I was alternating the walks with 8 mile running days, with most of those runs at the sub-threshold/threshold level, for an average total run/walk of about 55mpw. After my success at USATF XC I tried to push the running mileage upward to 60+mpw and found it harder to be consistent and have had more minor injury problems. I hope I have learned my lesson about overdoing it, but I also have said that to myself each of the numerous times I've overdone it.

Thanks old guy II. I think I am going to try to replicate that routine on two easy days. I am out of the pool until my wound heals. Just walking alone seems harder than a walk/jog combo, which I have tried in the past. This week on Tuesday/Thursday I did 5 miles at 18:00/mile. Next week I will try the walk/jog combo and add one mile, see how that goes. I do have a nature trail 3/4 of a mile from the house which would give me a softer surface.

Of course I have a tendency to over extend myself to end back at square one. Getting better with age, however.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I have both a first and second edition. I believe their is a third. I actually prefer the simplicity of one.

Agreed, and you can get it cheap:

*Week 485*

Greetings, 50+ers! Still struggling to find urgency here; watched some ultra fitness challenges for inspiration...I'm slowly coming around. Did manage to get an hour's worth of exercise in yesterday, and I intentionally did a lot of stair climbing mid-week, but that's about it. Hips and IT have gotten tight with all the sitting, though, and the arthritis in my toes doesn't seem to like the general lack of activity. I think things are starting to settle down to where I can devote more time to personal care, so hope to be getting out more as we head into fall.

Sorry that you're hobbled again Rtype; good luck on the recovery. Really feel for all you folks on the west coast; the fires look absolutely apocalyptic!

Look forward to reading how things are going in your neck of the woods. Stay safe our there!

All the Best!

Stocky Middle-Aged Runner wrote:

Alan55 wrote:

M65, 5' 4", 127lb. Stocky.

Huh? Stocky? Well...if you're stocky I must be massive at 5-7, 170 (M59). It's funny that I'm doing more weightlifting now (played college football and did about 10 yrs of competitive powerlifting back in the day), I'm considered a "little guy" among the sea of gorillas in the free weight area of the gym that I belong to. And lot of these cats who are in their 30s & 40s are huge - six footers going well over 225 lbs! Granted they don't run at all and some of the older ones are on TRT - but it's intimidating being around such big guys. They like to kid around calling me "shorty" & "big midget" but I don't know what they would call me if I was 127 lbs. Lol.

I did not mean stocky to be a substitute for well muscled :-). I just have really short muscly legs for my already very small height. Top runners all have long, skinny legs for their height. I wish.

I console myself by remembering that my Dad ran a 4:23 mile in 1950 looking similar, so all is not lost. He might even have beaten Ed Whitlock, as they would have been in the same university XC league.

M61, 5'11", 180 lbs

SEPT 6-12, 2020

Sun - Off

Mon- 5.0 miles (9:29 avg out, 8:07 avg back)

Tues- Off

Wed- 4.0 miles (9:14, 8:45, 8:32, 7:05)

Thur- Off

Fri - 7.7 miles @ 8:16 avg (9:33, 8:52 ... 7:47, 7:14)

Sat - Off

TOTAL: 16.7 MILES

Another week of progression runs. Times continue to come down, unfortunately my weight does not. Still stuck at 180.

The "long run" was 3 seconds faster per mile, compared to last week, and I posted my fastest closing mile so far this year (7:05 on Wednesday).

Monday's 5-miler was special -- I ran with my son for the first time in many years (he's 32). At the moment, we're pretty evenly matched. He's only recently gotten back to running, but contemplating a marathon next year. His twin brother, who is actually built like a marathoner, has never had an interest in running. Oh well!

I'm looking forward to my next 1-mile time trial. If I lose weight, maybe 6:30? That would be a one-minute improvement since late June. I'd love to see sub-6 one more time before I die.

Friends, be well, be safe, happy running (or happy walking, or speedy recoveries, as the case may be).

Watching a very eventful climb in the TDF so I will post my week a bit later. I do have to be getting up for work in a bit over 4 hours, oh well.

Sending good thoughts to all of you in the West affected by the fires. Stay safe!

Weather in the U.P. has been great for running. Temps in the 40s at night and 60s during the day. I love not having to be out at dawn to try to beat the heat/humidity. To keep my motivation up, I've committed to running three in-person races this fall. They have TT starts so no crowds at the start/finish. Maybe not perfect but better than no racing at all.

Sun: 10.4 Long Run

Mon: 7.4 Easy

Tue: 8.0 Track 8 x 600/200 (3 @ 8:30 pace, 3 @ 7:50 pace, 2 @ 7:35 pace)

Wed: 14.1 Bike on trainer (back seized up, had to lay on the floor it hurt so much,

hot epsom salt bath and MG12 treatments)

Thu: 7.0 Easy, back sore but didn't hurt when running

Fri: 5.0 Easy + Strides @ 7:00 pace, back sore but OK, 20mi biking

Sat: 36.5 Bike @ 19.7mph, back still sore but better

I think my back issue was caused by running on crowned roads. I try to run down the middle or alternate sides but I must not have been careful enough. I've had this before and had to resort to dry needling and chiro to get it to loosen up. This time I've been rolling it on my dog's ball and a golf ball. I hope that will work!

Nice progress Allen1959. I agree, running with your kids is special.

Long may you run!

I'll be interested to hear how these go. pre-pandemic I've run a few races over the years with staggered starts -- either predicted time (start whenever you want; don't wear a watch; winner is whoever finishes closest to the stipulated finish time) or age-handicapped (oldest start first; 5-year age groups go out at designated lags, with young adult men last to start; winner is whoever finishes first) and always found it pretty fun -- each puts you in different mix of who's chasing you and whom you're chasing than a more typical race...........

SCgal wrote:

To keep my motivation up, I've committed to running three in-person races this fall. They have TT starts so no crowds at the start/finish. Maybe not perfect but better than no racing at all.

!

................

M 1:20

Tu 1:15 with 6 X 3:00 (2:00 jog) at 5k effort -- first two a step or two shy of 800m, last 4 thru 800m in 2:58 each

W 1:15

Th 1:40

F 1:35 double with drills and strides

Sa 1:30 with 5 X 2:30 (2:30 jog) fairly hard uphills

Su 1:05

Happy new year (i.e., opening day for the generically named Washington Football Team),

Dave

Good morning from an unhealthy smoke saturated Southwestern Idaho. Air quality is about as bad as I have seen it. I suppose blowing in more from California than Oregon. Wish the best for the posters from those states, and those affected. Covid 19 cases are surging over the past week, looks to be associated with college openings rather than public schools. Economic activity seems to be picking up, however I do notice continued business closings.

As for me, some progress on the training front. The wound has healed nicely, with a small piece of surgeon super glue remaining. Swimming and weight lifting is out for several more weeks, but back to full quality training session yesterday. I plan to substitute walking “old guy II style” for the next month or so. Who knows, perhaps I will do more of it going forward? I covered 30 Igy miles, all walking or running.

Monday: AM- 2 miles easy/walk; 8 x 100m R (24 for 4, 22 for 4) / 100m walk; mile easy/walk; 3 mile walk

Tuesday: 5 mile walk

Wednesday: 2 miles easy/walk; 3 x 1200m T @ 7:50, 8:00, 7:09 / 2:00 rest; mile easy/walk

Thursday: same as Tuesday

Friday: 3 mile walk

Saturday: 2 miles easy/walk; 4 x 100m R @ 24, 23, 22, 20 / 20m walk; 200m walk; 2 x 1600m T @ 9:00, 8:59 / 2:00 rest; 600m walk; 4 x 200m R @ 51, 49, 48, 47 / 200m walk; 400m walk

Sunday: Off

Have a good week.

Igy

It’s “Apocalypse Now” in California. This week my ability to run was limited entirely by the smoke in the air. I decided I’m just not going to run when the official air quality is in the purple “hazardous” range, and that zeroed out three days this week. I ended up with just under 40 miles for the smoke-limited week.

Monday: 7.9 miles easy, dehydrated and depleted from my smoke-shortened backpack trip.

Tuesday: Yellow air quality but hot, 74 degrees. 10.0 miles felt tough.

Weds: Purple AQ. No run, just spun the bike easy for 50 min.

Thurs: Yellow AQ and 64 degrees—whee! 10.9 mile run felt good.

Friday: Another purple air day, no run. Easy spin on bike for 50 min.

Saturday: Orange AQ and low 60s at dawn. 10.9 miles felt the best I’ve felt in many weeks.

Sunday: AQ well into the purple range. No run, short bike spin. Eyes sting and throat feels yucky. Pretty sure it’s the air and not COVID-19.

The gyms are closed, so I don’t have that indoor option. I considered hauling my bike trainer into the house from its current location in the garage, but I don’t know how much better the air is indoors and it would be very hard to stay cool enough in the house. I may try that option if I keep losing too many training days.

Allen1959, it’s great to see you continuing to progress.

SCgal, nice training week despite the sore back. It must be great to have in-person races on the horizon, even with the TT starts.

dhaaga, I liked Jason Gay’s comment in the Wall Street Journal, “Q: What should we call the Washington football team this year? A: Overmatched?” In the meantime, I’d read yesterday that the planned game between the Niners and the Cardinals in San Francisco might be postponed or moved because of the smoke here. I guess I’ll see what’s on TV at 1 pm Pacific time today.

Between the pandemic, fires, and the utterly stupid political situation, it’s pretty depressing right now. Hoping for better times ahead.

M65, 5' 4", 127lb

46 days to the European Masters 10k championships. Wondering whether to go, given my poor performance on the track this week.

First full week of running since my shin problem flared up mid-June.

Mo: am Workout pm 35min easy

Tu: 40min easy

We: 40min elliptics & rowing

Th: 50min easy

Fr: Track, 2k wu, 7 x 400m with 200m jog. Average 1:45. Hoped for much better, but just not enough training under my belt.

Sa: am Workout pm 50min easy

Su: My classic "hill" session. 4mi, 3900ft ascent, 95min. Beautiful view of Mont Blanc from the top.

.........

amkelley Could I ask what your research specialty is? I've also done 40 years of research (in physical chemistry in industry). Now retired and writing up all that stuff that I never got around to. Science is too much fun to just give it up.

.........

My thoughts for all those suffering from the fires. What a disaster.

Happy running or whatever to all.

SCgal wrote:36.5 Bike @ 19.7mph!

That is impressive. My goal at the start of every ride is 20 mph, but rare have been the times I've even gotten close, recently OR in my youth. Especially for 30+ miles. Wow!

Old guy II -- I've mentioned previously that I refuse to walk for exercise, but I can imagine a scenario where I combined walking and running like you. It occurred to me that walking is always enjoyable between 800m repeats!

Mopac -- When you post today, keep mum about today's Tour results -- I DVR and watch late at night. Not much sleep the past couple weeks ...

amkelley -- I assume you have air conditioning and a high-quality filter? We had a ground-source heat pump system installed 10 years ago. On a windy winter day it struggles to heat our porous house, but can quickly and inexpensively get air temp down to 59° in the summer. With a fan, plenty cool enough to ride, I'd think.

Allen1959 wrote:

SCgal wrote:36.5 Bike @ 19.7mph!

That is impressive. My goal at the start of every ride is 20 mph, but rare have been the times I've even gotten close, recently OR in my youth. Especially for 30+ miles. Wow!

amkelley -- I assume you have air conditioning and a high-quality filter? We had a ground-source heat pump system installed 10 years ago. On a windy winter day it struggles to heat our porous house, but can quickly and inexpensively get air temp down to 59° in the summer. With a fan, plenty cool enough to ride, I'd think.

I second your kudos to SCgal! Even when I was riding pretty well a few years ago, the best I could usually do for 30+ miles was about 17 mph. Close to 20 is really good!

I do have air conditioning, but I also share my home with a husband who isn't likely to tolerate either indoor temperatures cold enough to support a hard trainer workout or the extreme expense to achieve it. We typically set the a/c at 78 degrees during the summer, which is tolerable when sitting around doing nothing, but pretty hot for a hard aerobic workout. It might work with a fan blasting directly at me, and I may have to find out within a couple of days.