50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

The other worth mentioning is in 1972 Nike had a store in Eugene. the first year the company existed as Nike. Mike Long who I ran with under Mihaly Igloi and the Santa Monica Athletic Association, forerunner of Santa Monica Track Club, ran for Oregon and worked in that store. He introduced me to Geoff Holister (legendary early Nike employee), and I was able to get comped a pair of the Nike Moon Shoes. The first finisher in the shoes at the Trials was Mark Covert a fellow Southern Californian I ran against high school through my club years. I believe he was sixth, and as result became a real piece of Nike history. My understanding is a recently a pair of moon Shoes sold for $100,000 or so. My pair got tossed by wife most likely during one of my coaching moves.

Other thing is being around people with legitimate shots to make the team, and experiencing failure. One was Tom Von Ruden, my coach at Oklahoma State 1970-1972. He was a member of the 1968 team, finishing 8th in the 1500 meter in Mexico City. In 1971 he was consistent top U.S. performer, and had a great indoor season that Olympic year. I recall we did a two man 10 mile relay on a dirt track in Stillwater in the spring of 1972. Popular race at the time, each participant ran 20 times 440 with your rest being your partner's run. In this case, we did it as a workout. Tom teamed up Peter Kaal or Mike Manke, can't remember which, but both were excellent milers, and averaged close to 60 seconds a piece. Tom was never the same after that workout. Jacked up his back, sciatica I suppose. He was in tears when he was eliminated in one of the early 1500 meter rounds.

You can imagine the sacrifice people made at that time. Zero money, really. Perhaps bag some travel expenses, save some per diem money for the better athletes. One of the reasons by 1976 I had enough. I was a good mid-tier national level athlete, but never going to be Olympic caliber. A coaching career gave me another venue to continue the sporting life. Never regretted that decision.

Great story. I still have an old pair of Oregon Waffle racers I got in the mid-70's. I suppose they might be worth some money. Geoff Holister approached me several years ago at a road run in Portland. I was wearing an old vintage Nike running jacket. He offered me, at that seemed like a lot of money (can't remember the amount). So I gave him the jacket and he gave me the money.

Funny. Some of this gear has become serious collector items. I suppose once my wife and I are gone the kids will go through various life mementoes and shrug “why did they keep this?” But who know really? Upon my father-in-laws passing we found some art work my wife’s mother did in high school. Really neat art deco style. We framed them and they look great in our house. So the adage holds true of one man’s trash, another man’s treasure.

Coureur des bois wrote:

Great story. I still have an old pair of Oregon Waffle racers I got in the mid-70's. I suppose they might be worth some money. Geoff Holister approached me several years ago at a road run in Portland. I was wearing an old vintage Nike running jacket. He offered me, at that seemed like a lot of money (can't remember the amount). So I gave him the jacket and he gave me the money.

Oldest pair I still own. Probably similar vintage to yours. These were comped to me in 1975 or 1976.

Igy - love the stories. Keep 'em coming.

I was a freshman in high school in 1972. Pre and Jim Ryun were my heroes of course, with their trials wins.

I thought I was hot stuff, winning the mile at a JV tri-meet in a blazing 5:11. Honestly, it was the hardest I ever ran in a mile, took the lead at 220 and ran as hard as I possibly could every step. A true death march! Certainly coulda been faster if I'd known how to pace!

Dave, congrats on a speedy 5k!

amk, hey that is a good week! Onward.

My left achilles is coming around slowly. I walk each morning.

Today I walked 1.2 on my creek trail, then turned and ran back at 10-minute mile pace to check out the achilles. It's still tender, but improving. I hope to be able to resume training in a month.

Good luck to all in these wacky times. May you stay forever young.

sharing the santa monica connection with igy, i've been privy to some of these stories and pics already and they are fascinating. also, i enjoyed many an ice cream treat at the fosters freeze igy mentions, albeit 10 to 20 years later in both the 80s (post-beach trips in h.s.) and 90s (post-workouts with smtc).

i'll add to the name-dropping, since coincidentally i just hung out with jacqui hansen at an annual running function (smaller and more "unofficial," unlike years past where we've had other running luminaries like mike fanelli, craig virgin, don bowden, steve scott, matt centrowitz, and so many others) with some local (and beyond) legends here in orange county. jacqui is another legend/trailblazer full of stories from yesteryear, whom i've gotten to know well because of our shared igloi protege connection (she was coached by laszlo tabori, whom i knew well, and i was coached by joe douglas of smtc)--igy of course is one of the rare athletes coached by igloi, tabori and joe. also hung out at the same lunch table with ruth and tom wysocki (another set of amazing storytellers)--i got to be on a low-key usa indoor team with ruth in '93 where we competed in a tri-meet in england and i think russia (can't remember). to hear about what ruth and jacqui had to go through during the dawn of women's athletics and the limited opportunities pre-title IX...

back to our regularly scheduled programming: i am consistently amazed by the time trials being posted. i haven't figured out how to do it well in 39 years of running, so i'm about to give up hope of ever learning it. i'll throw my hat in the guess for CDB. like dave, the 13 miler shows an aerobic aptitude beyond his 800 reps, so i'm betting on a sub 18. if those were my reps though, it would indicate more of an 18:10-15 for me, since trackwork is the more telling indicator for me.

i've been keeping track of my mileage regularly now (which is not normal for me) in a shared google spread sheet with my team since i can't meet with them during the covid era--they have to enter their daily mileage (none of my kids have garmins or strava accts), and i enter mine so they can see what the old man is doing. although not spelled out below, i've taken to doing short 4-6 minute "tempo-ish" surges (2-4 depending on length of run) during some of my easier runs, as per teammate pete magill's suggestion. as a former miler with a heavier percentage of intermediate twitch fibers, slow distance probably doesn't really give me the best bang for buck ratio:

7/6: 10+4

7/7: 6+7 (2 miles @5:30 pace; 1/2 mile easy; 1.5 miles with teammate at 6:15 pace)

7/8: 8

7/9: 6+4

7/10: 8

7/11: 9 (3 miles @ 5:50; 2 miles @ 5:27; 1 mile @ 5:07, 3 minutes rest between reps, flat road)

7/12: 16 (15 miles @ 6:40, dirt trail out and back)

all in all, one of my best weeks of training in a while--i will say that the power of running with others powered my 3 best days above. my 3/2/1 workout was with some younger dudes, and at each spot where i felt i was going to break, i was pushed and motivated by my training partners. today was my longest run in probably 20+ years, yet when i run alone on even my shorter runs, i actually have to focus to run sub-7 pace, but again running with youngsters i was able to run significantly faster with less effort (we were in fact talking through most of the 16 miles). it's reminded me that now that i'm unable to meet with my team that i coach, it's imperative for me to meet with others more than just my usual tuesday workout if i want to train hard, or get the most out of my training time. we're expecting on of our hottest weeks of the summer coming up, but i'm fortunate to not be too adversely affected by the heat...

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Joe Douglas was the first coach I knew that did tempo runs. He would call them “fresh swing” structured as 20-30 minute runs sandwiched before and after a longish track interval session.

My typical Foster’s Freeze purchase was a cherry slush. A big spender, probably 20 cents. There was usually a group of us after an easy day. No way on a hard one. Then starring at the pretty girls while trying to avoid an ice cream head ache. ?

Nice 5K in your big meet dhagga. And nice time!

I'm with socalcush on the time trials--I think I might be done. In the past I've generally done 2/3 to 3/4 of a given race distance and called it good as a preparation for the real thing. And my mind-body seem to know that now, and can't or won't push through. Maybe one more but not until September. Things are opening up some with a few races but will have to see if that holds. Statewide and county case numbers are fairly low but have climbing over the past month.

49 miles for the week plus the 22 minute roller ski effort, which was more of a clown show. Now back to more of a base phase without a lot of workouts but more miles. Had a nice run on Rollinsville Road (8300-9000 ft) yesterday, avg. 8:03 for 14 after a very slow start for 25 minutes (groggy). Lots of pros/elites/sub elites and teams out there. I'm super slow compared to anyone else out there but was >2X their age.

Welcome once more from Juneau Alaska. Heading home in four more days. But will be back for two weeks in early September for the Coho Salmon run. Just can't get enough salmon for the freezer.

So I did my 5,000 time trial this morning. First off the excuses. As we get older we get better at excuses. I had planned on running this TT tomorrow, but decided last night to run it this morning. We are suppose to get a big rain all day tomorrow. So I had to ask myself, do I want to run the TT in the downpore or run it a bit tired? Yesterday a ran a mountain run with a fair amount of uphill. That with the fact that it was just three days ago that I did a fairly hard 13 miler my body was still a bit tired. And I did not have my spikes with me. The track was a little wet so I could feel a little slipping when I ran so I had to run in some old racing flats. Also I started this TT at 5:35 AM. It is tough to sleep when it gets light so early. Ok that is enough excuses.

Ghost of Igloi you were the closest predictor. You said I could run 18:22. I ended up running 18:43.

At 65 I am just thankful that I can train and run hard. It is truly a gift from God.

Everyone have a great week. Over and out from Alaska.

Have been away a while, not much to catch up on from here. Going to be hot and humid for the next week or more here in KC MO, so the heat index and continued heat stresses will pile up. So is the risk with Covid-19 here as in so many places. While we were out walk/running yesterday, passed by a popular open-air restaurant and a majority of those outside were sitting close together and without masks on, and NOT eating at the time. Seems like so many people are either in total denial or have a death-wish, and "keeping the economy-country open" is a recipe for long-term destruction of lives and health. And this administration is fine with that.

OK, rant over for now. Pulled my hamstring earlier this week, despite having a 10 minute walk and 2 successful 1/3 mile easy runs, so only total of 3.6 running miles, out of 46 total miles for the week. Have been getting in about 45 miles each week, with about 1/3 being short runs of under 1 mile at a time. Keeping my weight at about 147, and with work added in, I get about 19,000 steps/day. My attempt at a run of 0.1 miles yesterday caused my hamstring to tighten, so it really is injured, so must take more time off. Got to get out for my walk now before work, so hope all can stay cool, fit and well-slept! :)

nice going! no explanation needed for an 85%+ age grade solo run, but fwiw your list of reasons struck me as highly valid.

safe travels on your return,

Dave

Yep, still fast for RB, same for you dhaaga.....

Coureur des bois, I saw from everyone else’s guesses about your upcoming 5K time that mine was totally off the mark. You did good; I am sure you have sub-18 in you still.

Igy, I had no idea you were such a great marathoner back in the day. Our local distance runner Rick Bayko, who owned and operated a local running shoes store until a couple of years ago when he retired, also ran in the 1972 Olympic Trials Marathon. He wasn’t a favorite, so hoping for a miracle, he tried a new pair of running shoes in the Trials. But they destroyed his feet, so he dropped out and got back to the track in time to watch Prefontaine run the 5K. By the way, I read Kenny Moore’s profile of Lasse Viren, and I do not believe Viren blood-doped. Even if he had, it wasn’t illegal at the time. Speaking of your Nike Moon Shoes, I believe my first pair of actual running shoes may have been my 1973 Nike Waffle Trainers, which of course I no longer have. I wore them for training, for races, for everyday. Eventually they slid on and off like slippers. Yes, I had no clue back then. I thought running shoes were good to go until they actually fell apart on your feet. I probably even wore them when I was shoveling the Rochester, NY snow. Finally, haha, yes, your wife-to-be did shut you down! But if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. I dated my first girlfriend from age 18 to 21 (we were the same age). Then she dumped me, which was probably a wise move at the time. Nine years later after no contact in the interim--of course no internet back then, so nobody knew where anybody else was--I tracked her down in a different state. Turned out she was still single so I asked her out again (today I would probably be arrested for stalking). She said yes, we were married less than a year later, and now we’ve been married going on 32 years.

Newbi, great week for a newbie!

lucKY2b, sounds like you are doing great despite knee issues, etc. I too have knee issues, and like you I am not sleeping much these days. In my case, I think it is job stress.

Olde Farte, congrats on your four “Course Records” (CR’s). ;-)

Rtype, like you I am using dumbbells these days for my strength training, since that’s what I have access to.

MikeF, congrats on 800 miles this year! I have only run that many miles in a calendar year once in my life (2007, when I ran 900 miles including my only marathon and ended the year seriously injured). Surprised your cortisone shot is working; those shots have never worked for me.

Mopac, you are leading a varied and exciting life as usual. One can never call your training “routine.”

old guy II, 36 miles of running/walking is very nice.

Allen1959, good luck ramping up the running; don’t ramp too fast though. You are more sure to get there in the end if you take it slow. Congrats on losing 11 pounds so far! I have gone from 184 pounds to 160 since Jan. 1, and it wasn’t that hard once I had a meal routine down. I believe the COVID-19 lockdown really helped me avoid distractions and focus on my diet more effectively.

dhaaga, another great week of training for you! I am not surprised you beat the middle school walkers. There is a baby carriage that occasionally shows up at my track and gives me a run for my money. Last time I wore them down for the victory but on any given day it’s a coin flip.

scgal, I actually love running on a treadmill, so I can’t understand your reluctance. On the treadmill I can adjust the incline, adjust the speed by 0.1 mph increments, and get a lot of really good data for my log. My body appreciates the soft running surface. Last but not least, treadmill running is like having an invisible pacer that keeps you precisely on target for your goal pace. Hard to beat the advantages of treadmill running, IMO, except, of course, that it isn’t quite the same as running on a stationary surface.

amkelley, your 66 miles impresses me.

Charlie, good luck with your 800 training.

Stocky Old Runner, I live on the Atlantic coastline, the North Shore of Massachusetts, and I can’t comprehend the temperature highs (and lows) you folks have in the landlocked states.

Big Red, good luck with your rehab.

socalcush, amazing training! Yes, it’s surprising how much faster one can run with others than alone. Once I was struggling along the sidewalk in my town at slower than 9:00 mile pace and wondering why running was so hard. Then another guy blew right past me at sub-8:00 pace going the same direction. Fired by the spirit of emulation, I took off after him and found I could match his pace without much trouble. When he got where he was going, he stopped and we chatted a little. Nice guy, who didn’t hold it against me that I had chased him down the street for 2 miles.

Coyote Montane, nice week of training as usual.

Mike Lundgren, don’t get me started about this administration, because this is a family discussion thread, and good luck with your hamstring.

I am sure I missed some people, so please accept my apologies.

On Sunday, 7/12/2020, I hiked 3.1 miles up Mount Crescent (3,251’ high; 1,423’ elevation gain by our route) near Randolph, NH, with Mrs. Brittle and our #2 son. A surprisingly hard hike despite the short distance. Not only was much of the trail steep, but we were caught in a downpour halfway up; then the rain continued at a lesser intensity for the rest of the hike. Only I had brought a rain poncho. Mrs. Brittle had actually brought a poncho but had abandoned her pack at a lower point on the trail, #2 son had not brought a poncho because “according to the forecast there is only a 20% chance of rain.”

All three of us sheltered under my poncho’s tent-like expanse during the worst of the rain; then I gave it to Mrs. Brittle to wear. After a while she was so hot that I offered to take it off her again, and put it in my pack. Then we all continued walking in the more or less continuous rain thereafter. Temperature was in the 60s on the summit and 70s lower down, so we were not much chilled.

Mrs. Brittle has told me more than once, “I don’t like to sweat,” so it is ironic that all three times she has hiked with me, we have been not only been caught in torrential downpours but she has also had to sweat buckets.

We spent four hours on the mountain so it was good that we were carrying a lot of liquids and some food.

Week of July 6-12, 2020

MONDAY - 0.25 mile warmup + 4 miles running at the track, 38:27 (9:37/mile).

TUESDAY - 2 miles walking, Regular stretches, Back stretches, Upper Body strength workout, Lower Body strength workout, Knee exercises.

WEDNESDAY - 0.25 mile warmup + 4 miles running at the track, 41:39 (10:25/mile).

THURSDAY - 2 miles walking.

FRIDAY - 0.5 mile warmup + 4 miles running at the track, 37:49 (9:27/mile).

SATURDAY - 2 miles walking, Regular stretches, Back stretches, Upper Body strength workout, Lower Body strength workout, Knee exercises.

SUNDAY - 3.1 miles backpacking.

Totals:

13 miles running, 6 miles walking, 3.1 miles hiking in the mountains with a light pack, stretching, strengthening.

Brittle,

Thanks for the shoutout. I was somewhat athletically successful on the basis of durability and stubbornness. Good job on your equal durability and stubbornness in pursuing your love. My wife’s first impression was that I was a bit of a smart ass. Probably a correct assessment.

Igy

Definitely!

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

My wife’s first impression was that I was a bit of a smart ass.

My wife's ongoing impression is that I am a lot of a smart ass.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

My wife’s first impression was that I was a bit of a smart ass.

My wife's ongoing impression is that I am a lot of a smart ass.

Marriage can be a trial at times, especially for wives with crazed husbands.

Very early in our marriage, we were lying under a sheet in bed at night, trying to sleep on a hot summer night. Suddenly I heard the whine of a mosquito near my ear. I whacked at it and only succeeded in whacking my ear. I absolutely hate mosquitoes. No way I could relax and lie there in bed knowing it was just waiting to descend and suck my blood if I fell asleep.

So I leaped out of bed, turned on all the lights to make the room as bright as possible, and proceeded to hunt the mosquito while wearing only my tighty-whities and glasses (the better to see the mosquito).

This hunt took some time because the mosquito had gone to ground somewhere in the room. It is very hard to locate a still and unmoving mosquito. However, it can be done. While stalking my prey, I held a shirt in one hand and used it to continuously whisk at the walls and the furniture in hopes of stirring up the mosquito wherever it was. All this time I was calling out, "Here, Mr. Mosquito, here, Mr. Mosquito..."

Meanwhile my bride is huddled beneath the sheet, terrified that she has married a crazy man, and just wanting this madness to stop so she can get to sleep. She does not possess the true fire that I do, of needing to drop everything and deal with the mosquito when this kind of situation arises. Years later she told me she was lying there asking herself if she had made a big mistake in marrying me.

Eventually I did find and slay the mosquito, so we could both go back to bed. And eventually she decided she had made a good decision marrying me.

?

Brittle,

I pulled a joke on my wife one Halloween. I had my cross country team in masks sneak into our basement through the back door. She kept saying “what’s that sound?” It was fall in Kansas. Perfect ghoulish night. Of course she had to go for a look. Scared the heck out of her. I was in the dog house for a while, and learned no practical jokes for that gal.

Igy