50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

KPdx wrote:

20:05 Solo Road 5k

05:27 Brooklyn Solo Road Mile

40:14 Stumptown Solo 10k

KPdx, good luck with the foot healing fast.

Looking at your times, that's a fast mile. Based on your mile, I would expect a lot faster 5K time, like 18:XX.

And your 10K is almost the exact same pace as your 5K. Again that suggests your 5K should be faster. Just my two cents.

Maybe you had a hot day for your 5K. I know something about hot days now.

Yes get well soon KP and MikeF. Bummer to be laid up for a chunk of the summer. But hopefully you'll be back at it in another month or six weeks.

I did something weird on Tuesday, just doing an early easy run because I didn't have time to do a full workout before an early work call. Stepped on a rock that all but went through my shoe (well not really but you get the point). So now I have a sore metatarsal--not terrible but it's there alright. Maybe a bone bruise, or just the soft tissue. So I took off yesterday and tried to rollerski a bit (first time in 6 years, and was definitely not really ready for that; it's actually more difficult than actually skiing and my coordination and balance have gone down some in those years). But still might add some in here or there as cross training.

About running in the heat, just use some common sense! In college we did workouts or races in the heat of the day sometimes (90s with high humidity), but that was because we had to. Post-college on those hot days I would do harder workouts late, after sunset, or early and would adjust pacing and duration. Learned how to adjust pacing for hot races, and actually beat better runners because I did adjust.

Per Tuesday, I could have done an hour plus with fartlek at 10 or 11 AM but it was already >90 degrees (dry here). So for my second workout did just 40 minutes with 8X 200 at moderate effort (5K/3K, working down to mile pace at the end). And it was on the turf to keep it easy on my foot.

I generally avoid hard workouts in the heat, and when I haven't however, have had some issues with thermoregulation after tempos run in the 80s or so. Overheated, then sweat like crazy, then chills, followed by overheating again and it takes a couple hours to balance.

One more time trial [5K] (tomorrow, at 6:30 AM to beat the 99 degree heat expected later in the day), and might take the weekend off to give that foot some time to heal up. Then I'm just going back to base work for the rest of the summer.

I guess you missed this from the Dr. Ernst Van Aaken article that Charlie posted :-)

“In addition to his different views on diet, Van Aaken also had controversial views on sleep. He believed that contrary to what most believe, that people sleep too much. He would often limit his own sleep to only a few hours.“

amkelley wrote:

Allen1959 can tell you something about running-related heat injuries.

Ha! How did you remember that? But, yeah, the 1986 Lilac 10K will forever live in infamy. A week in the hospital, permanent liver damage. I was lucky, though; another runner died. At the hospital they mistakenly thought he had suffered head trauma -- and never took his temperature.

Anyway, we'll see about any future 5Ks. Between my competitive years in my early 20s and again in my early 40s, for a couple decades I still "participated" in races, so I know I can enjoy the sport sans accolades.

But I gotta admit my late 50s were quite a hoot. I REALLY enjoyed the age-group honors and placing well overall (even outright winning). And I absolutely loved the look of surprise on the youngsters' faces as I hammered on by!

Rtype, Igy -- Thanks for the shout-outs. After kicking off my training with a hefty 15-mile week, this looks like a step-back week. Gonna try to stick with it, though.

daagha - Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm usually pretty good at intuitively knowing race pace, no matter my fitness or the race distance. Still, kinda surprising, considering my fastest mile this year was barely under 9:00, kicking in the final mile of a 3-mile "long run." Yet, I intuitively started almost exactly at my 7:30-pace.

Maybe that's unremarkable for us old guys with decades of experience?

Allen1959 wrote:

amkelley wrote:

Allen1959 can tell you something about running-related heat injuries.

Ha! How did you remember that? But, yeah, the 1986 Lilac 10K will forever live in infamy. A week in the hospital, permanent liver damage. I was lucky, though; another runner died.

The story you recounted previously on this thread was pretty attention-getting. I've been lucky (and smart?) enough to have never experienced any significant heat trouble--never anything worse than just feeling very hot and then suddenly starting to feel chilled, which fortunately happened very near the end of the race and disappeared quickly after stopping and drinking in the shade.

I understand the balance between getting enough sleep and getting up early enough to run before it gets too hot. I try to get to sleep by 9:15 so that I can get up by 4:40 to run at 5. If anything disturbs my sleep (dogs barking at coyotes outside, etc.) I end up somewhat sleep deprived, which I still consider preferable to frying out on my run. But we each have to make our own choices.

On the night before my early runs I am in bed by 8:30 pm and up at 4:20 am. I drink a cup of coffee, and read a bit. I have about a 20 minutes drive to where I run, so out the door by 4:55 am. I drop my athletic bag in my Y locker, grab my racing flats, hit the head, and out to the track. Routine works best for me.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

Actually I like treadmills, but I just cancelled my gym membership because I think it's way too soon to go back. COVID-19 seems especially risky for us older folks, and now they are saying all sorts of neurological problems can result from the virus, not to mention lung capacity problems. What a mess we are all in, with this virus affecting everything in our lives.

Being the ripe young age of 59, I had some of those same concerns but I can't be without gym needing the PT for my chronic injuries - both running related and a bad car accident a few years ago.

The private gym I use has very impressive safety measures and besides no one is there. You make a reservation on your app for a 90 minute time slot (the gym closes at every hour and a half for 30 mins of deep cleaning). Equipment is spaced out. Every third treadmill is only available. Spin bikes are spaced out in square markings about 8 ft from each other. Most everyone is wearing masks. But the thing that struck me the most is the low turnout, which actually is nice.

I workout fairly consistently around the 7 to 8 evening timeframe and pre-COVID there easily would be over a hundred people at that time. A lot of waiting and lot of frustration with the younger people tying up machines while they goof off on their phones. Since the reopening of the gym, there hasn't been more the 25 or so - down about 75%. I don't know if people are just too spooked to come back or they've invested in home gym equipment and are doing their gig at home now. I'm usually the oldest person at the gym these days with the very young people who have returned back. Ironically, I've yet to see any of the many acquaintances I had at the gym pre-COVID...which is strange. But I'll tell you it's nice not to have to wait for any equipment and be able to get in and out of there.

Good article here on the value of strength training over the age of 50, and how it improves the "economy of movement" and "offloads the joints:"

Your foot should be well in no time at all. Report your 5k TT after you run it. I plan on doing one also in a few days. It will give me something to shoot for.

Brittle. Yeah my middle distance performances rarely match what tables suggest for the longer stuff. At the same time, tables are wrong about my middle distances. Case in point my 2:22 indoor 800 and 5:27 road mile off of little track training. Bottom Line is that I am a MD RUNNER; with a rare 2:28:49 Marathon PR (Chicago when Jonesy set WR) and not so rare 1:58 Masters 800 and 4:04 Masters 1500 age 43-45. I like Jack but most of my Open and Masters PRs from Marathon to 5k are a whole different ballpark than my 400-800-1500-Mile marks. KP

I certainly don’t agree with that. Conventional medical wisdom suggests 8-9 hours sleep per night is ideal. I know that works best for me. And considering that we are working out and getting older, getting enough quality sleep is necessary for maintaining a certain quality of life. For example, I recently had an interesting discussion with my personal physician regarding the science supporting the connection between quality sleep and the reduced likelihood of dementia in seniors.

Stocky Old Runner wrote:

The private gym I use has very impressive safety measures and besides no one is there.

I am a firm believer in Whatever Works.

In my case, I have a small back porch behind my study, where I can stretch and work out with dumbells, while listening to my own music. (Not the horrible stuff that my Planet Fitness plays nowadays.)

When the virus blows over, assuming I haven't blown over too, I do plan to return to my gym, but I will continue using my own back porch as much as possible--not only for convenience, but also for the sake of hearing some good music while working out.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

Stocky Old Runner wrote:

The private gym I use has very impressive safety measures and besides no one is there.

I am a firm believer in Whatever Works.

In my case, I have a small back porch behind my study, where I can stretch and work out with dumbells, while listening to my own music. (Not the horrible stuff that my Planet Fitness plays nowadays.)

When the virus blows over, assuming I haven't blown over too, I do plan to return to my gym, but I will continue using my own back porch as much as possible--not only for convenience, but also for the sake of hearing some good music while working out.

That's funny - I have a few friends that work out at PF who tell me the same thing. ?. I listen to music at the gym off of my phone with wireless ear buds, that way I can listen to my favorite heavy metal bands from the 80s & 90s. ?In fact, I'd be lost without my smartphone. Every post I've ever done here has been off my phone (hundreds). All my music comes from my phone whether at home, gym, running, etc. I thank my 20 yr son, a student-athlete, for transitioning me into an integrated smartphone user. ?

Coureur des bois wrote:

Your foot should be well in no time at all. Report your 5k TT after you run it. I plan on doing one also in a few days. It will give me something to shoot for.

You are right, my foot is better already.

It will be nothing for you to better my time. Good luck this weekend!

Considering the heat wave, had perfect conditions by running at 7 AM. 66 degrees and no wind (5 hours later it's 93 there). I ran 19:17 (elevation 5340, with a 38 foot drop to the finish). Like last week I'm okay through 3.9 or 4K and then just can't hold through the tough part of a 5K. A bit disappointed but just need more base work and to up my volume to get back to where I've been.

Here's a quick run down of the past couple of months (9 weeks) - average 52 miles a week usually with 2 workouts and a longer run. Almost all singles but a few doubles (~1X a week this past month). In comparison 2017-19, about 60-65 miles a week (peaking in the 70s, drop downs for races in the 50s) on average and doubles a couple times a week. I did not progress as much as expected following that 15K in early May, but have been very consistent if you look at age grade percents. So not thrilled with the level, but more than happy and grateful to have a solid foundation and good health. Ready to up volume by 20% over the next month and just run, get out the door and enjoy the mountains and foothills, or early mornings on the plains/cityscape.

Here are the results from May to now, sea level conversion (real time at 5200-5500 elevation).

1 mile - 5:26 (5:33)

5K - 18:42 (19:17)

10K - 38:30 (39:47)

15K - 58:40 (1:00:45)

All impressive times, my favorite your 15k.

Coyote,

Indeed, a very impressive set of times!

Folks in the hot and humid parts of the country are probably quite jealous of your weather conditions. Central California is also having a heat wave, although nothing terribly out of the ordinary for us. Today it was 69 degrees at 5 am and 71 at 6:30, dry and with a light breeze, and the sun didn't rise until past the halfway point and was still low and the end. Even for a heat-phobe like me this is tolerable, although far from ideal.

nicely done! at mile-high+ no less. As someone who lives at elevation of 451 feet I'm always amazed by what some of you can do at altitude. One time when we visited my late father-in-law for a week at 6300 feet [Beulah CO] i was gassed just jogging around for a couple miles.

--Dave

I moved to high altitude for training in 1975. After acclimatization, the only thing I really noticed was the times were slower. There was no perceived increase in effort.

Coyote Montane, excellent body of work.

From the sublime to the mundane, here is my run today:

Warmup of 1 lap jogging, 1 lap walking, 1 lap jogging, 1 lap walking.

4 miles on the track in 37:49 (9:27/mile), 75 F., extremely humid--in fact, there was a fog surrounding the track.

Mile splits: 9:40-9:39-9:35-8:55.

This was a good run for me at this stage of my training. My goal was to run at a steady pace I could maintain for the whole distance, and finish with a faster last lap (1:57). I did what I set out to do, so for me it was a success.

Good running and a happy weekend to all!

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

Mile splits: 9:40-9:39-9:35-8:55.

Brittle, back in 1973 you were WAY faster than I, but these days we would match up quite evenly.

My 4-miler on Tuesday:

Mile splits: 9;14, 9:10, 9:22, 8:55

My 4-miler on Thursday:

Mile splits: 10:40, 10:09, 9:41, 9:18.

CM -- Nice resume for the spring/summer. Those were solo time trials? Very impressive! At age 62, right? Before Covid-19, were you targeting Worlds in Toronto? I'll admit that as recently as a year ago, I still had hopes of racing there. By August, though, I knew it wasn't gonna happen.

The cancellation, in a way, sorta lessened the disappointment.