50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Good running racers. Some fine performances.

Weather still seasonable here, 80s and 90s but dry. Working on increasing my volume (equivalent miles-Igy miles). This week about 28+ miles, or 10% more than last week. Four runs in the the foothills which included one spill at 6:00 am on a rocky trail. Fall pretty well for an older chap, probably from my skateboard days. Also, I went back to the gym one day for core and weights. Next week plan to add one swim, and do a two day backpack trip with my son. We are going to the 20 Mile Lakes above McCall, Idaho which includes one pretty steep climb for about 12 miles total in and out. It should be pretty easy to notch 30+ Igy miles next week.

Happy trails.

Igy

*Week 428*

Greetings, 50+ers! Going to start with a somber note and a brief moment of silence to remember a good friend, avid runner, and stellar coach, Jim McCoy, who died of a massive heart attack yesterday. My Wisconsin running buddies and I are shocked and devastated by this tragic event; it happened during cross-country practice on Friday---immediate administering of CPR and 30 hours of intense work by valiant doctors couldn't save him. God rest his soul, he was just a super great guy. " [silence] "

Gives me pause and makes me count my blessings. On that sad note, I had hoped that this week would get better, but I wasn't expecting both hell AND high water....I think that my plate is going to remain pretty full until the SACS accreditation visit in mid-September. I'll continue to muddle through and try to find ways to get some miles in. Had only 2 decent walks this week, but I did do a lot of stair climbing just shuffling papers between offices to get signatures....Jack is a dull boy, as they say, but I'm not giving up yet.

Great to read some truly positive health updates! Sure is uplifting and a cause for celebration. Also nice to read some positive race results coming in. Saw the results from Flint and I must give a shout out to you fast masters.

Regarding shoes, somewhere I read that shoes also need to recover from runs, and that you'll get more life out of them if you rotate, but I also like the idea of switching up shoes so that you don't get "married" to a particular shoe and can feel comfortable regardless of the shoe. I don't have the science to back any of this up, though.

Speaking of Pete Magill, there was an article in a very recent podiumrunner article by him documenting a few week's of his training as he tries to get himself back into world class fitness.

https://www.podiumrunner.com/three-weeks-in-summer-a-masters-runners-training-log_178138

Have a great week everyone! I'll look forward to reading your training and race reports.

All the Best!

^

https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7034274/north-laketwenty-mile-lakes-trail-315

Portion of our planned trip.....

Dardee, 5:24 for the mile sounds like a wow to me. And doubling back to the 10-miler, even if only as a tempo…you’re on tough dude.

Allen53, congrats on the 5K. Nice race! For what it’s worth, I have generally found that sleeping poorly the night before a race doesn’t detract from my performance and may even improve it provided I wasn’t sleep deprived previously. I usually feel mentally foggy after a short night but I tend to feel physically full of energy and less stiff than after a normal night’s sleep.

Igy and runlebec, good news on the test results. That must feel like a big load off your minds.

I had another rather boring week of low intensity and moderate mileage (just under 59 miles):

Mon: after the previous day’s long-ish run caused a flareup of the Morton’s neuroma that bothers me intermittently, I took today off and rode the bike trainer for 60 min.

Tues: 11.1 mile run

Weds: 11.0 mile run

Thurs: 10.0 mile run

Fri: 10.9 mile run

Sat: 15.8 miles at 9:25/mile pace. Slowest long run I’ve done in a long time, but it was hot and I wanted to go easy.

Sun: Despite (or perhaps because of?) the slowness of yesterday’s run my Achilles was talking to me, so I took the day off from running and rode the bike 32 miles outdoors.

Igy, the hiking trail looks lovely. Enjoy!

lucKY: Very sorry to hear about your friend. I lost an old running friend of mine a few months ago during a race, he was 70. It’s a not so subtle reminder of reality.

Holy Cow, too much to keep up with on this thread!

I’m having a go at try number 587 to increase the amount of time I run.

Magill’s training log. 85+ miles a week? Shouldn’t there be a disclaimer like you find on ladders and chainsaws? “Warning, emulating this training could result in both of your legs falling off!”

Tue = 4.2 miles easy

Thu = 4.3 miles easy

Sat = 4.4 miles easy

Sun = 4.5 miles easy

Have a good week folks!

amkelley,

Thanks on both. Health wise gives me more confidence. On backpacking, do an annual trip, missed it last year. Gathering my provisions and looking forward to dining on Mountain House. ?

Igy

ha! reminds me of Scott Douglas' point about reading the training of world-class runners -- rest of us need a translation program. A lot of SoCal Pete translates 1:1 for me as a fellow 58-y.o. (challenges of tying one's shoe, hamstring issues, supplemental stuff aimed at old injuries. tightness after too much sitting, work hassles, getting fired up for HS x-c alum race.......), and then some (5:30 pace discouragingly slow, targeting American age group records......) has to be put thru a more complicated algorithm........

[quote]Rtype wrote:

Magill’s training log. 85+ miles a week? Shouldn’t there be a disclaimer like you find on ladders and chainsaws? “Warning, emulating this training could result in both of your legs falling off!”

..........good week on my end as weather got drastically better the last several days -- sneak preview of how fun fall running can be in DC area.

M 50:00

Tu 1:30 double

W 1:45 hilly trails -- bad pratfall tripping on root -- 3-point (knee, chin, palm) landing, seemingly no lasting harm

Th 1:50 double with striders on second run

F 50:00 + 30:00 x-t

Sa 2:45 incl. 30:00 at half-marathon pace (7200 meters almost exactly)

Su 50:00 + an hour of kayaking on beautiful morning

Lucky, very sorry to hear of your loss. That must have been quite a shock.

--Dave

Greetings all on a beautiful late summer day! I'll try to catch up on the thread after work today, but in the meantime, here's my stats and my week:

M60 -- 5'11" 168 lbs

Open PRs ---- 16:04, 2:40:30 (age 23)

Masters PRs -- 17:10, 2:56:03 (age 43)

M55-59 PRs --- 18:58, 3:07:23 (age 58)

August 19-25, 2019

M- 4.0 miles @ 11:15/mi

Tu- Bike 16 miles easy

W- Bike 7 miles easy, 15.3 @ 19.3 mph

Th- Bike 11.0 miles @ 19.8 mph

Fr- 10.0 miles @ 8:01/mi

Sa- 6.0 miles @ 10:07/mi

Su- Bike 20.3 miles @ 18.3 mph

TOTAL: 20.0 MILES

Another low-mileage week. The past four have been 26, 17, 20, 20 (running miles).

Friday's 10-mile run was a planned progression; 2.5-mile segments at 8:42, 8:06, 7:48, 7:27 per mile. I took 600 mg of ibuprofen a few hours before, and was relatively pain-free. Sans drugs yesterday, though, 6 miles was very slow and painful (knees).

I'm planning to race a 5K on Friday. After that, I will re-evaluate my priorities. I may give up on running for a while, maintain some fitness on the bike through the autumn, and get back on the elliptical for the winter.

L2B sorry about your friend having a fatal heart attack. As we all know the number one risk factor is age so I really do try and remind myself to cherish every day.

Allen53 ya did it enjoy the ride and keep track of stuff like that 5 or 6 x 1000 as that workout aligned pretty well as a predictor as well as how hard you should go and how close in a workout to race day. Ironically your 6:34 by feel/effort was slow but still if you got to the starting line feeling good this might be a good recipe.

Flint milers well done ! If I was withing driving distance this would be on my list. NDJY you did fine just keep perspective. Last summer in Cheney 1500 I was 300 meters behind when the lead pack was sprinting for home . I almost slowed down a bit to watch them finish. The last 100 meters really sucked but it motivated me too now I might only get beat by 250 meters!

Week 7

Well same ol same ol except I found a few new places to run sand and sand pine forest oh yeah. Decided to take a few days off before my annual blood work as running elevates my liver enzymes but noticed a certain enjoyment to this so I might work 3 or 4 day breaks every 7 weeks or so into my routine. Because I have decided to just keep it steady until 65. No increases in mileage or intensity for the next 2 years when I turn 65. Kinda an extended base with minimal racing.

Run of note another lactate threshold Herman Cape to Dry Creek Camp 27:17 at 10 percent lower HR than when I ran 26:49. This is good. I ran this at a lower effort because after the 26:49 I felt like crap for 2 days. This one left me feeling really good and not much slower. Amazing how slowing down just a bit totally changes the stress level.

Steady as she goes.

Nice running in Flint Dardee, not done, and rdb. Dave you had the most depth in your age group! My clubmate may have set an American record for age, but if they go by gun I'm not sure about that. Either way he was right in there! Good 5K Allen! Keep it rolling if you can.

Kinda sorta wishing I could have gone to Flint like last year (esp. for the 10 mile), but we had an in-house workshop which just wiped me out and I would have been over-tired going in.

M - 44 min easy

T - 50 min, with 23 minute tempo/progression 6:30-6:07, avg about 6:20, at 7.4K feet.

W - easy double, 75 minutes total

Th - 55 min, post workshop, very tired

F - 70 min double, still very tired

S - Workout, 80 min total, with 5X 1000 m and 2X 650 m at 8-10K pace, and then 3X 150, each finishing at 50 m of "sprint" (I'm slow so that's a joke)

S - (1:46) progression, first mile 9:20, ha ha slow, and then progressed from about 8:15 to 7:10; at the end got really pissed off at a guy yelling PEDDLE! at his crying/screaming young (5-6) daughter who was struggling up a sandy hill while riding a bike with training wheels. Frick frack, it was 80 degrees and they were a good 2 miles out from the parking lot. A) don't take your kid out so far on a hot morning, and B) don't yell at them! Kid is going to hate cycling/exercise and going to hate her dad.

So about 60

No way could I do 85 mpw sustainably, just a couple months after ramping up. I peaked at 80-85 a couple weeks leading to marathons in 2017 and 2018, but dropped back to 60 for a recovery. But that's why Pete's a star and has all sorts of ARs!

Today I “celebrate” the 7 week anniversary of my calf heart attack. Things continue to progress nicely, though slowly. Following the recommended plan of alternating jogging and walking, I’ve gone from 1’ on/off to 90” on/off to 2’ on / 1’ off. Tried 3’ on / 1’ off at the end of yesterday’s session. The first one went well, but I shut things down during the second when things got a little tighter than I liked. Continuing with the ice, heat, and massage.

Thanks to all who have offered support and suggestions. I very much appreciate your advice and sentiments.

Best to most!

I was standing at the start line for a 5K at 8 a.m. today. Had a great couple of weeks and thought I would see how that would go. 67 degrees, light wind, overcast, a course I’ve PR’d on before. Perfect!

Mike Lundgren can tell you what happened next, I’m too disappointed ... anyway, as I write this I’m trying to get a story filed so I can then make up for this morning and go for a long run.

Re: Magill’s training, the eye opener for me is that Pete runs 85 miles a week! I can confidently say that I will never run 85 miles in a week, even when prepping for a marathon if that ever happens. Igy, I know you said something about 10-15 hours a week but last week I just got it past the 7-hour mark and it felt like THAT was a major commitment. Maybe it’s all relative, and a year from now when I’m throwing down 60-mile weeks like wheelies, I’ll look back at this post and laugh. Or maybe chuckle.

KCGeezer,

Yes, 10-15 hours is quite a commitment. Some of that is stretching and supplemental training, and not year round. My best masters running was from age 54-58, and I easily logged those type of hours periodically. Maybe I overtrained, or am not that talented. I think it is understood that if someone can get out the door at 7:00 miles they are going to be a good 50s masters. So five to seven hours a week is going to go pretty far. Perhaps not optimal for that individual though. Of course I am not necessarily advocating this level of commitment, since we are not professional masters athletes. My wife and my body could only be stretched so far. I would be interested to have a time clock on Pete Magill; 85 miles if including drills, intervals with recovery, would tip the ten hour mark. Throw in stretching, core, and weight training you are approaching 15 hours. I can easily spend an hour weekly on flexibility and anotherhour on core/weights. I think one can agree though that Gene Dykes does, and Ed Whitlock did clock that amount of weekly training time. Take for example a 5k race with 2 mile warm-up, strides, trip to the restroom, change to racing flats, finish, grab water, cool-down. I know I am quite a bit slower now, but that is easily 1:30 for me, perhaps 1:45.

Igy

My time last week:

Monday: 5 miles walk and run in the foothills = 1:30

Tuesday: AM- 3 miles walk/run; PM- 3 mile walk = 1:42

Wednesday: 4.5 mile foothills run = 1:00

Thursday: 3 mile walk/run; core and weights = 1:15

Friday: 5.5 mile foothills run = 1:15

Saturday: 4.5 mile foothills run = 1:00

Flexibility during the week: 1:00

Weekly total = 8:42

(actually probably spent closer to 2 hours on flexibilty)

Allen1959 wrote:

Cavorty wrote:

Apart from different shoes for different speeds, the idea is that you get slight changes in mechanics with different shoes, which might help fend off overuse injures.

Exactly. I currently rotate four pairs of shoes, plus a pair of racing flats I sometimes use for workouts. They're all a bit different, most low-drop and fairly minimal, but one pair are higher-drop and more cushioned. That pair seems to put more stress on my knees while being kinder to my achilles and hips. I just figure it's good to alter the biomechanics a little each day.

Also, it allows the shoes to thoroughly dry and air out between uses.

Thank you both for your replies. I understand what you are saying, but not entirely convinced that a measurable advantage exists. I need to give it more thought. Thanks again.

Let's take the following alternatives:

Run 3 days (1 being a hard workout), then 1 day off. Keep repeating.

Or run 4 days (1 being a hard workout), then 1 day off. Keep repeating.

Or run 5 days (1 being a hard workout), then 1 day off. Keep repeating.

Etc.

Without getting too precise here, obviously the more spaced the actual workouts are, the less fitness one will have (but be less likely to get injured).

What's the lowest frequency of actual workouts one can do and still have it be worthwhile?

Google: FIRST, “Run Less, Run Faster”

BLtheKid wrote:

Let's take the following alternatives:

Run 3 days (1 being a hard workout), then 1 day off. Keep repeating.

Or run 4 days (1 being a hard workout), then 1 day off. Keep repeating.

Or run 5 days (1 being a hard workout), then 1 day off. Keep repeating.

Etc.

Without getting too precise here, obviously the more spaced the actual workouts are, the less fitness one will have (but be less likely to get injured).

What's the lowest frequency of actual workouts one can do and still have it be worthwhile?

Define “worthwhile”.