50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

nicely done. Sounds like you and Igy both raced really well.

fun week of running for me leading into official Summer:

M 2:15 double

Tu 1:15 with 3 X 10:00 (2:00 recovery) at half-marathon pace (about 1.5 miles each)

W 2:00 double

Th 1:10 + 30:00 x-t watching world cup

F 30:00 + 30:00 x-t

Sa 40:00 incl. rolling road 5k in 19:04 (net)/19:07 [gun] for 26th OA, 2nd M55-59

Su TBD after morning in ER with my wife getting her eye issue checked out--seems to be non-emergency and can wait for Mon.

Saturday night race was same time exactly as last year. It was less humid but windier, so maybe these balance out. I lost by about 5 sec to the guy I was just ahead of last year but finished ahead of the guy I was just behind last year, so unclear if conditions were any faster. I'll just conclude that I've stopped the aging process. All I need is another 5 years of the same to be able to give Charlie a good race!

have a great week,

Dave

BIG fist bump Igy and Charlie...solid.

Unimpressive week here...cortisone injection on Tuesday limited my volume to just 19 miles for the week...along with lots of push ups and sit ups.

Looking forward to attending the Prefontaine Classic next weekend at Stanford with 30 or 40 old time running buds.

Stay well one and all.

your pal,

MF

Thanks Cavorty.

I never run hard on tired legs . If I was doing those workouts I would be running my easy runs much slower but this can be a problem . I have been doing really slow base miles for the last 12 weeks while pushing the fast stuff and that has eroded my base a bit. Next time around I am going to shorten from 12 to between 6 and 8 weeks but try and start at a higher level.

btw I still dream about breaking 18 as well. Hey if you do not believe how can you achieve?

Everyone Thanks for the Support . I really enjoy following all the runners who post here with respect and admiration.

Good racing KP, Charlie, Igy, and rdb! Masters running Rock Stars.

Cavorty, those are pretty good sessions, but hard to say where you without some races or time trials. Do weekly sessions of reps ranging from about 2-5 minutes, and probably most typically about 3-4 or 4:30. These are at about my current 8K race effort, I go by feel most of the time but once a month get on the track. And I do a tempo run about every week to 10 days. Sometimes just 5K or so, sometimes 10K or longer. Most easy days are easy, about 2 to 2.5 minutes slower than 5K effort.

Just under 62 this week with a couple of workouts, a surge tempo effort for 32 minutes on Wednesday and 5X 4 minutes yesterday. I cut today's long run short by 15 minutes because my legs ached and knee hurt.

Charlie wrote:

Thanks Cavorty.

I never run hard on tired legs . If I was doing those workouts I would be running my easy runs much slower but this can be a problem . I have been doing really slow base miles for the last 12 weeks while pushing the fast stuff and that has eroded my base a bit. Next time around I am going to shorten from 12 to between 6 and 8 weeks but try and start at a higher level.

btw I still dream about breaking 18 as well. Hey if you do not believe how can you achieve?

Everyone Thanks for the Support . I really enjoy following all the runners who post here with respect and admiration.

I think that might be my problem, the speed of the easy runs. I grew up in England in the Coe, high intensity/low mileage era, which somewhat suited my, as I had more speed than endurance. Generally would have been running under 50 miles per week, but even the steady runs would have been under 6:00 min miling. It's still fixed in my mind that 8 minutes is too slow, and if I'm not careful every steady/recovery run still starts out at 7:20 or so. I was supposed to on a recovery day today and end up with 42:01 for 5.4 (7:36 per mile). Gets a little messed up on the coast here with the wind (tail out/against back) so ended up with fairly wild splits of 7:21, 7:17, 7:34 and heading back into the wind 8:09 and 8:00. By heart-rate it was all either easy or aerobic, but it is probably not really a recovery pace for the legs.

I'm going to try and impose cardio speed limits on my steady and recovery runs. Running them too fast is definitely leaving me with tired legs when I'm doing tempo or reps.

If I can just get the right knee cleared up completely, the middle of next month going forward, I'll try a few weeks of hills once a week to see if I can get a bit of power and stride length back.

Charlie wrote:

Well the highlight of the meet was meeting Igy. He had a good day but I will let him recap it for ya.

Comfortable 19:05 62.8 years young . Started off good thru fist 5 laps then I slowed down just was not willing to hurt.My breathing and effort stayed the same 2/2 but my laps were 2 to 4 seconds slower. Costing me 25 seconds over laps 6 thu 11. Then I felt energized and kicked to close in 85. I liked that 85 I was huffing and puffing but running pretty fast so there is hope.

Charlie, you’ve really motivated me to find a track meet to run in! That’s incredible!

I still feel, even after over a year on this list, that I really don’t know what races to aim for. So I just pick random ones near me. But when I read about Igy and Charlie meeting IRL it makes me wish I were in on the fun.

At the last minute I decided to do the Dairy Dash again. It’s about an hour from the lake cottage the in-laws have in Wisconsin. Again I finished 2nd OA, in 18:03, again I went home with cheese curds and chocolate milks for the grandkids, again I got my picture taken with a person in a cow suit.

What was different this year was the preparation and training. There was no preparation or training. I put in about 30 miles this week, all easy running, and felt fit as a fiddle at race time. Friday I did nine miles on ATV trails and forest roads and had a ball.

Have a ball, everyone!

KCGeezer,

In my mid-50s had a little more free time and attended several USATF national championship. Met several of my competitors that I still communicate with. One in particular I ran against as a young man, then we meet again 30 years later. I still see some of them competing today, with a host of new names. Several that were not at the top of their age group then are today. Pretty cool. Hopefully, as a retired 70 year old I can do it again.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Charlie’s time 2nd on US posted times.

That is incredible - and BTW nice race yourself ! Looks like you are on the right path back.

Charlie and I are the same age (62) and I am pretty sure I am not going to see sub 20:00 again - I am just happy when I can stay anywhere under 21:00 these days - which age grade to where I was in my early 20s.

Had a fairly decent week with 52+ total miles. (this was week 18 of 50+ mpw - I counted wrong last week) With three hard efforts including a mile track race and 15% at hard effort (1-3 mile race pace).

The low key mile race Tuesday evening at the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor Track Club hosted a mini meet on Tuesday).

I counted 24 starters in the men's heat of the mile. It was a bit of a traffic jam and did a lot of running in lane 2 or at least 1 1/2 - Hard to tell, but pretty sure I was the only one over 50. 6:08 (maybe high 6:07 not completely sure). 1:30, 3:00, 4:34/5, 6:08. Absolutely believe I can run faster. My goal is sub 6:00 and I have at least three certified mile races (all road) of the next few months, so I have time to get there. Also planning on a few 5Ks and I have the base and some speed work to draw on.

Keeping my weight UP is a challenge - I feel like I am pushing in calories even when not hungry and taking in enough fluids to about float away. I cut out a lot of refined sugar about two months ago and I am struggling to stay at above 132 (my weight as a junior in HS) My loving and supportive spouse (also a great cook) is more concerned than I am. But if I can click off the miles at a decent pace it can't be to serious.

Congrats to all others who had their own personal victories this week!

M59 -- 5'11" 175 lbs

Open PRs ---- 16:04, 2:40:30 (age 23)

Masters PRs -- 17:10, 2:56:03 (age 43)

M55-59 PRs --- 18:58, 3:07:23 (age 58)

Goal: Defend M55-59 title at 15K (6 weeks)

June 17-23, 2019

M- 10.0 miles @ 8:39/mi

Tu- off

W- 12.0 miles @ 8:35/mi

Th- off

Fr- 10.0 miles @ 8:37/mi

Sa- off

Su- Bike 7.2 miles easy

TOTAL: 32.0 MILES

My 12-week base training is done. This week I'm introducing workouts, starting this morning with 6 x 800 @ 5K pace. Based on my recent training runs, I was thinking that might be 7:30 mile pace. But going "by feel," I ran the 800s at 3:11 (3-min jog recoveries). So, that's encouraging.

To have a chance at winning M55-59, I'll likely need 6:30 pace in the upcoming 15K. So, six weeks to essentially extend current "5K pace" to "15K pace." Might be doable. That'll be my last race as a 50-something; I turn 60 a couple days later.

Last fall I ran 19:13 for 5K and 1:01:02 for 15K, then took many months off due to knee problems. Here's the weekly mileage build since April 1st:

6.7, 11.0, 15.0, 20.6,

21.7, 16.2, 22.1, 25.0,

0.0, 35.0, 9.0, 32.0

I've also included some bicycling. Weekly totals since April 1st:

6.0, 22.6, 18.3, 62.6,

73.8, 49.7, 51.3, 93.6,

23.8, 24.0, 185.4, 7.2

OK, gotta get back to work. I'll catch up with everyone's training later tonight. Have a great week!

Interesting. Saturday I was doing a very similar session to your 6x800m - 5x1000m with 2min jog recovery. Did them between 3:59 and 4:01 and was passing 800m in 3:10/11 very like your 800s. Was planning on 6, but I'd overdone it a bit the day before 5 miles at 7:17, and although breathing and heart-rate would have been good to go again, legs weren't. Did 5.5 at 7:36 on Sunday so hadn't learned my lesson!

I'm like you, working back after some knee problems (off from September to January) - would love to get down to the 19:13 that you hit for 5k last year.

Cavorty wrote:

Saturday I was doing a very similar session to your 6x800m - 5x1000m with 2min jog recovery. Did them between 3:59 and 4:01 and was passing 800m in 3:10/11 very like your 800s.

Especially with just 2-minute recoveries, your 1000m repeats are impressive. In VO2max workouts, I generally allow recoveries equal to the repeat durations.

The long recoveries allow me to run repeats at "5K goal pace" -- usually 5-10 seconds per mile faster than current race pace. This may not be optimal physiologically, but helps boost my confidence.

Actual 800s this morning were 3:15, 3:13, 3:09, 3:11, 3:08, 3:10.

I had to rely on "muscle memory" from last year. So far this year, I had logged only THREE sub-8-minute miles. And those were single-mile, all-out "time trials." No strides, no hills, no workouts since last year. I got a nice mental boost this morning.

Let's get after that "low-19s 5K." Best wishes!

Allen a pleasant suprise no doubt re: 800s. and.... sixty is not the end but the beginning of a whole new running career heck them 80 year old guys are old the 60 is now young man that is how I see it.

Cavorty

One of my favorite book of workout schedules is The Self Coached Runner II.

I just like to compare and contrast my workouts to what they recommend.

You can still buy this dinosaur on Amazon

Here is the last 8 weeks for a sub 19: sorry one page is upside down but still readable:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FzYNrU5UGEqLr-X6sanPuPfRQS1CcIbv

Dhaaga optimism is a necessity when running towards old age I plan breaking 19 at 65 which would put me less than a furlong away from world domination!

Rtype man I hear ya it is so tempting to run another 5000 in fact there is one this thursday and I might succumb to my desire to break 19 we shall see

5000 track Age Graded Comparison:

Best Age Graded 5000 track track at age 49 was a 16:45 which age grades to 85.12. Ran on the same track in similiar weather However the 5000 at age 49 was an intense competition where I was destroyed on lap 10 but rallied with a close of 75.

June 10 2006 16:45.14 AG:85.12 percent

June 22 2019 19:05.83 AG 83.61 percent

AG 85.12 at age 62 equals 18:42 which is 23 seconds faster than the 19:05 I ran. Darn it!

Shirley I can run 23 seconds faster not this year and quit calling me Shirley hmmmm.

PMTC did a good job they posted up splits and all I destroyed that phantom guy with my devastating kick:

1 Charlie M62 19:05.83

45.280 (45.280)

2:13.686 (1:28.406)

3:44.058 (1:30.373)

5:13.211 (1:29.153)

6:45.951 (1:32.740)

8:19.217 (1:33.266)

9:51.710 (1:32.494)

11:25.399 (1:33.689)

12:59.213 (1:33.814)

14:34.695 (1:35.483)

16:09.103 (1:34.408)

17:41.302 (1:32.199)

19:05.827 (1:24.526) kicking felt good one one breathing but feeling strong knowing it is the last lap this was the best I have felt since rebooting.

Ok now it is out of my system

Could not resist this guy is SFC.

Link to where is talks about mileage fitness and all miles are NOT created equal.

https://youtu.be/LHFRUjeW9qc?t=357

Thanks...I “kicked” a 1:58......

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Thanks...I “kicked” a 1:58......

Yeah but I swear your home stretch 100 was a 22.5.

Smelled the barn......

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Me 26:08, 3:39 better than a road 5k 1/1/2019. So progress.

Good job! You’re on my tail. Keep it up and I may end up on yours.

Thanks. I think I can do better, and I suppose that is enough to keep me motivated.

Charlie - as Van Morrison sang - "Thanks for the information.." My background as an older master, having raced continually since about 14, for a club-track team in England and later mostly road with a few runs in the national masters in the US-

5000m - 17:32 at age 53 - 84.3% - 4:42 for 1500m two days later - 85.5%

10k road - 37:07 at age 53 - 84.75%

10k road - 37:16 at age 54 - 85.11 (same course as previous year)

5000m - 17:50 at age 55 - 84.27%

3000m - 10:20 at age 55 - 84.54% - actually by far my best run. Indoors on a flat track in a rough tactical race where we jogged the first couple of laps. Had run 4 x 1000m in 3:19, 3:19, 3:20, 3:12 two weeks earlier, and I think I could have run 10:10 or a bit quicker at somewhere like the Armory.

5k road - 18:00 - at age 56 - 86.02%

After that mostly injured on and off. Did run 18:35 for 5k on road at 57 off four months training, and supposedly 11:32 for 2 miles on road (but not totally convinced about legitimacy of that one).

Knee prohibits real speedwork, but I'm hoping that continuing to work down the aerobic short recovery stuff will get me to a point where I can do some faster stuff, and get into decent shape for October.

Allen: I'm hoping that what I'm doing is still aerobic rather than V02 max - going by HR it is, so since I can't really run a lot of speedwork at the moment, I hoping I can gradually work my way down there.

Good luck with the quest for low 19s and with a bit of luck perhaps we'll both get there this year.