50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Week 2 of recovery/diversion. Ran 4 days (29 miles) easy effort, and XC ski 3 times (5 hours total) also easy effort. Next week will be similar with but maybe 3 and 3 days each (or 2 and 4), with a day off. Feeling more rested but legs still tight from the long year, so massage is needed. Might get one next week or week after. Then I'll transition into mileage build up for about a month.

Looks like we're a go for Tallahassee. It will be very early for me, and so I'll be running on base training. But I think I do better on that compared to when I cut back on miles and get race specific.

Have a good week everyone.

Rtype, I’m pretty much with you regarding those consumer DNA tests. I’m a Ph.D. chemist, and while I have not studied genetics beyond the basics, I share your skepticism about both the results and the interpretation of such tests.

Igy, don’t get down on yourself about your sub-par race. Really, you should know better by now than to expect a decent result with that preparation!

It was a good week for me. I managed to keep my various ouchies at bay well enough to take advantage of the winding-down semester and generally good weather. 67 miles for the week!

Monday: 10-mile run started out with temps in the low 50s and light rain, but halfway through the wind kicked up to 25-30 mph and it started raining very, very hard. I ran the last 4.5 miles into a direct headwind though blinding sheets of horizontal rain, telling myself that at least it’s 10 degrees warmer than this year’s Boston Marathon. Came back like a cold drowned rat.

Tuesday through Thursday: each 10-11 miles in benign weather.

Friday: Cross-trained 75 minutes on bike trainer to rest up for Saturday.

Saturday: 18.5 miles easy. Longest run I’ve done since blowing up my Achilles tendon 3.5 years ago. 9:12/mile average pace was pretty slow, but I was just trying to get through the run without problems. Everything felt fine—no pain, no cramps, just some generalized creeping fatigue. It’s rather depressing to think that I could once run a full marathon in considerably less time than I just took to run 18.5 miles. But I was encouraged to confirm that I can still run for a long time without anything going wrong.

Sunday: 6.4 miles easy. Felt a lot better than I expected, but took it really easy out of caution.

I’m seriously considering running a 20-mile race in 3 weeks. I have never raced that distance, so by definition it would be a PR although I’ve gone through the 20-mile mark in marathons much, much faster than I could possibly race 20 miles now. If I do that and it goes OK, I might consider entering my “local” marathon in late March.

We’re supposed to get rain over Christmas and then much colder weather by next weekend (“cold” being relative here in mild California), so I’m glad to have made the most of the mostly ideal weather this week.

Happy holidays to all!

congrats on pain-free long run. that's got to be encouraging.

mostly easy week Mon--Fri. for me except 2 X 10:00 (2:00 recovery) at half-marathon pace weds.

Saturday I started my 2019 training with 2:00, last 15:00 at marathon pace.

Today an easy 1:00 x-t and 1:00 run

this training cycle is planned as 14 nine-day cycles, culminating in late April 5k X-c race at my high school as part of weekend celebration of my 40th reunion. Goal is to finish ahead of everyone from class of 1979 or earlier. Later 2019 goal is 50-mile PR at JFK, but not focused on that yet really.

There's one guy from class of I think 1976 who's always been a much better runner than I am, but perhaps my "who goes to their 43rd reunion anyhow?" public service announcement campaign will discourage him from showing up. Got to pull out all the stops when training isn't sufficient to get the job done.

happy holidays,

Dave

amkelley,

Thanks. Yes I just need to stick to the plan and not over think the issue. Heading out in a bit after some coffee.

Igy

I had another good week of starting back to base building. 47 miles for the week with 4 threshold workouts.

M- 8 hills 9:10/mi ave

T- 8 walk with 150M stride every 1/2mi

W- 8 hills 8:58/mi ave

Th-7 walk with 150M stride every 1/2mi

F- 8 hills 8:44/mi ave

S- off (took my wife to holiday breakfast)

Su- 8 hills 8:46/mi ave

Merry Christmas and a happy running New Year to all!

Greetings masters pals,

Gimpy as all get out but finally got 'er done this week...more of a stupid pet trick than athletic accomplishment if you ask me

Have a RUNderful holiday

http://www.abc6.com/story/39658906/california-runner-reaches-110000-lifetime-miles

warm regards,

MF

MikeF - Congratulations on your achievement. Gimpy or not, you made it!

LucKY - Glad to see you're back out there. Slow and steady is a good strategy.

amkelley - Great to hear you've been able to increase your mileage without ill effects.

Everyone - Sending you all wishes for a relaxing Holiday and a healthy 2019!

This was a good training week for me with 53 mi. running and 67 mi. biking on a trainer using Zwift. Does anyone use Zwift for running? I've enjoyed riding with other people with the app and thought it might be fun to use for running when the weather is bad.

Sun: 12.1 E @ 9:00 (hilly), :30 biking

Mon: off

Tue: 6.6 E/ 1:05 biking

Wed: 9.0 Track (4 x mi @ 8:00/2:30 jog)

Thu: 6.6 E, :50 biking

Fri: 5.9 E + 5 100m strides, :30 biking

Sat: 12.2 E

Hope I can keep the miles up for the next two weeks of vacation and do better Tallahassee than I did in Spokane...

And the majority of middle-aged people have some form of "fatigue, muscle pain and muscle cramping" in response to vigorous training - it's called aging. I've running consistently for about 30+ yrs and things started going South in my early 50s. Call it age-related degenerative musculoskeletal changes. Tendon & ligament tears. Early onset OA. Acute injuries becoming chronic. In my late 50s now and still more injuries develope in response to vigorous training. I find myself fatigued with lots of muscle pain in response to intense training - the intensity that I use to do as a young buck. Turn down the intensity and go moderate most of the time - things are much better.

And on that genetic stuff - it's all bunch of BS. GMO foods, for example, have been a nightmare and have destroyed a lot of health.

If you want to see another side to this, then sit back and see what's really behind the curtain:

Great job Fanelli, and kudos on getting the word out!

amkelley and SCgal are running wild!! It will be later in 2019 before I even attempt a 67-mile week.

So this week a YouTube from Mo Farah caught my eye. I'm starting to realize the treadmill isn't just my go-to when it's icy out. The TM is a fantastic way to do workouts, because it helps me do what I need to get done in the parameters I want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8fmIvqQEf4

Nothing there that is earth shattering to you, probably -- but two things Mo says about his treadmill routine lit a fire under me.

1. Set the treadmill at a slight (0.5-1.0) incline. Studies have disproved the old rule about setting the incline to 1 to "simulate" running outside. In fact, running on a TM is harder than running on the road. No, you set a slight incline because it "takes the bounce" out of your run on the TM. This is so commonsense I'm surprised others don't point this out. I did a little comparison this week and it's absolutely true -- the incline may add a modicum of difficulty (which isn't so bad), but it does make the run more road-like without actually having to run on road.

2. He gradually increases his speed as he goes. I tend to leave the TM at a given speed and try to adapt my body to it -- which can be hard. Instead, he runs on the TM the way we run on the road, getting slowly faster. Again, very commonsense except it hadn't occurred to me to do TM this way.

So even though the weather was fine all week, I did three TM workouts, two regular runs and a short interval ass-busting: 10 x 90 secs at 1-mile speed, with 2.5-minute recovery intervals. Between that and the 1.5-2 hours/week on the elliptical, god help me, I'm starting to enjoy gym equipment.....

Family, multiple church services (at multiple churches), cookies, music, Christmas Day moviegoing, then Chicago over the weekend for family and a beloved friend's funeral. Hope your holidays are rich with family and fun experiences!!

Just Rohling along here.

Spent the week in San Antonio for USTFCCCA Coaches convention. Did a 3.5 mile long 5k race got 2nd in my age group averaging 7:37 pace. Michelle won the overall women's race at 7 minute pace.

I then ran 4 mile each day the rest of the week except Friday when I ran 3.5. I got lost in the predawn run and had to catch a ride with a grounds guy on the a gator because I was a mile away an would be lat.

Did 4 on Saturday and 7 yesterday. Seem to be averaging between 8 and 8:30 per mile.

My Holiday Streak is going well having not missed a day since the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.

Merry Christmas

Man, some of this talk is bit more technical than I care to think about! I'm at the point of really trying to dumb down my running...

So with that being said I ended up with with just over 50 miles for the week. I've got a streak of 25 days going. I'm sure I'll miss a few days in the next week as we have some big travel days to SC coming up. Most days feel ok but boy the day after workouts are real tests of my will. Just feel ragged and like crap. Makes me wonder why I'm even out there! But I did end up with three pretty good days...a lite tempo on Tuesday, 8x60 sec strides on Thursday and 12 on the treadmill Saturday. And the aforementioned crap days...

For the year it looks like I'll end up with right around 1800 miles. Thats my lowest total by a long wayyy, in 15 years. Which is probably a direct reflection of the mediocre race times. Sadly its the first time since 2002 I haven't broke 17 for a 5k. Even sadder is I didn't break 18:00! But I did end up winning one race overall and my AG by wide margins in all four races. Guess I've got that to hang my hat on...

Have a good week, y'all. I'll probably check in from Greenville SC later this week.

Go Irish!

Dave

1. I think TM is harder because you have to run at the constant pace. If your TM is set @ 8mph, for example, you have to constantly run @ 8mph all the time. If you are running the same pace outdoor, you can be slightly slower at one moment and slightly fast the next. (So in a way, we are probably running a little fartlek when we run outside.) I usually set the TM @ 1%. And when I get used to it, running on a flat surface feels easier.

2. I always do "progression" on TM. This is true even when I do my "easy" runs. I used to start @ 6 mph, but now down to 5.4 mph for the starting pace. Recently I even added a 1/4 mile walk before each run. And now it takes longer to get into a steady pace.

My week.

M: swimming 1000m.

T-SA: 6 miles.

SU: 9 miles.

I extended the daily run to 6 miles, and did a 9 mile "long" run on Sunday. So I consider this as another step in the right direction.

RF reader wrote:

I always do "progression" on TM. This is true even when I do my "easy" runs. I used to start @ 6 mph, but now down to 5.4 mph for the starting pace. Recently I even added a 1/4 mile walk before each run. And now it takes longer to get into a steady pace.

This year was my first attempt at treadmill running. I can't imagine just jumping on and starting at faster than 5 or 6 mph. Maybe that's due more to my general lack of coordination, but even on the roads, my first mile is generally about 10:00 these days.

Racerdb: It's incredible that you had maintained sub-17's until this year. My most recent 16-something was in 1983. And this year I didn't even break 19:00, which was very disappointing, especially after running 18:58 very early in my 2017 training.

My week was dismal. All my 2019 goals are transforming from challenging to impossible, I'm afraid. I recently took a fortnight off from running, and now have lost yet another two weeks. Ignoring the knee pain didn't work. I did get on the elliptical a few times, though. And hope to set my road bike up on the magnetic trainer this week.

Meanwhile, it's heartening and encouraging to see so many of you coming back strong after recent setbacks!

Merry Christmas!

I find the discussions of treadmill running interesting but they seem like they're written by another species. I have never been able to run on a treadmill, even when I lived in places with harsh winter climates. I am simply too clumsy. I run off the front, back, or sides of the tread, and/or I smash my hands into the console or side rails. It requires absolutely all the concentration I can muster to run at any pace on a TM, and maintaining that mental effort for more than 10 or 15 minutes seems impossible. I'm happy to now live in a place with a mild climate, where it is sometimes somewhat cold but never icy.

Allen1959, I empathize with what you're going through. I guess I'm about a year older than you, and while I can still slog through a decent amount of mileage during my good stretches, my loss of speed over the past several years has been truly breathtaking. I still really enjoy running and I'm glad I can still do it to some extent, but I think I've resigned myself to realizing that at some point one has to recalibrate expectations.

amkelley wrote:

I guess I'm about a year older than you, and while I can still slog through a decent amount of mileage during my good stretches, my loss of speed over the past several years has been truly breathtaking. I still really enjoy running and I'm glad I can still do it to some extent, but I think I've resigned myself to realizing that at some point one has to recalibrate expectations.

Last year I went back to page 1, and read through this entire thread. That helped put in perspective the ups and downs of later-in-life training, and the challenges of accepting ever-slower racing.

And there have been a couple other threads recently that described an inevitable "falling off the cliff," that typically, it seems, happens in the late 50s.

Still, I was hoping to hang on just one more year. Well, more than "hang on," I wanted to increase mileage to a lifetime high and chase that sub-3 at age 60.

6:50-pace for less than 180 minutes sounds so easy! Aargh.

Speaking of mileage, amkelley, during more than 45 years of competitive running, I have probably logged only seven or eight weeks bigger than your past week! Very impressive, and I hope you run that 20-mile race!

Allen1959 wrote:

Ignoring the knee pain didn't work.

I cannot remember if lucKY made any suggestions on your ongoing knee pain. In 2015 when my knee shut down my running I took his advice and implemented "retro running". It's running backwards. Sounds odd but it did help me. That and shortening my stride got my knee to stop hurting. Also, I was overstretching, but not sure most people have that problem. I suck at proper stretching technique. Downhill irritated it and uneven terrain irritated it.

Rtype wrote:

I took his advice and implemented "retro running". It's running backwards. Sounds odd but it did help me. That and shortening my stride got my knee to stop hurting. Also, I was overstretching, but not sure most people have that problem. I suck at proper stretching technique. Downhill irritated it and uneven terrain irritated it.

Thanks so much. What got me back on the roads earlier this year:

- quad strengthening on leg extension machine, done eccentrically

- adductor and abductor machine

- light hamstring curls

- elliptical machine set at high incline

- gradual introduction of treadmill set at 5% incline

- gradual reintroduction of road running

- minimal quad stretching (once daily in hot shower)

Back on the roads I tried to avoid overstriding and a couple times a week I would do one set of the leg exercises as maintenance. The knee pain never went away completely, but I was managing it until I fell hard onto my knee toward the end of a 17-mile run (at 6:40 pace running down hill).

Since then, I took two weeks off completely, tried running for a couple weeks, then gave up and went to the elliptical for two weeks. I was doing full-range leg extensions, but even light weights hurt. I had better results limiting the range closer to full extension only, and will continue that approach this week.

And try running backwards, too!

Merry Christmas all. For those track and field history buffs here is a Chistmas related tid bit on training with Mihaly Igloi. First, he invited you to train twice a day. He would coach anyone, but the group that trained twice a day was small and select. It was an honor. The schedule was Monday thru Saturday, with one workout on Sunday. Yes, that is 13 sessions a week. Second, it was rare that you had a day off, Chistmas, Easter and two weeks in August. No day off New Year’s you ask? No sir, on New Year’s Day you ran a time trial. Often it was a 1,320 yard followed by a 440 yard. Flat out. You learned to moderate your party mood.

Igy