50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

You had a really good week, that's encouraging for Tallahassee!

I was feeling beat down a bit after a long 2018 campaign and need some off time. On the first run back (Wednesday easy 4.5) I felt like I'd run a marathon or half on Saturday, so took Thursday off with just 30 minutes on the spin cycle. Just like training is cumulative, so is fatigue from racing and travel. So taking a couple down weeks with cross training.

Here's a Youtube of the 60+ race. You can kind of follow how things unfolded over the first 2 miles and then they have the finish for everyone at about 11 minutes in.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Here's a Youtube of the 60+ race. You can kind of follow how things unfolded over the first 2 miles and then they have the finish for everyone at about 11 minutes in.

Just checked out the video. (Crap I'll be late for work again! ) Joe did take it out fast. You looked strong on the finish!

L2b: I think I saw somewhere next years Club XC is in PA

My week was kind of up and down. Still hanging in there. Hit just over 52 miles in 7 days. All 8:00-8:20 pace except for some strides on Wed and my long run Saturday. I think I had my worst run of the year Friday morning then one of my best Saturday morning. Go figure? Friday was one of those days when you question your worth as a runner, finished completely demoralized and think there no hope! It was only 4 miles but geez I couldn't break 9:16 pace! I've never run a 9 minute mile in my life! But I redeemed myself with Saturdays 12 at 7:25/mi. Last 5 went 713,714,713,710,642 without looking at my watch! Hmmm...

I want to hit 50'ish miles again this week. I'll probably do a tempo mid-week. December is actually looking like a pretty good month, finally.

Have a good week,

Dave

KCgeezer wrote:

I'm told that speed work so close to a distance race will make some mitochondria unavailable to moi, but ask me if I care.

I’ve never heard of this. What’s the science behind it?

Good(ish) week...35 Miles, nothing fancy...mostly just smelling the barn while closing in on 110,000 lifetime miles...at 109,994 today...if I can convince my broken tight foot to cooperate, I anticipate accumulating enough laps of the local high school track tomorrow morning.

As some of you may know, I write about the history of the sport...just today I found out about the legacy of George Dole who is shown (in the accompanying article) running on his YMCA track at age 86...cool, right? But, perhaps even cooler, is that he was the lone American (and 5th place finisher) in that big one mile race at Iffley Road on May 6, 1954...yes, the one that Bannister won ?

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/03/06/maine-runner-took-special-note-of-bannisters-passing/

Coyote Montane wrote:

Interesting to see responses to Gene Dyke's record, from awe, to consternation over vaporfly 4%, and then of course--this being Letsrun and all--those that are sure that he and any masters with an iota of muscle definition must be doping.

Here is my take on Gene Dykes.

- He is a super-talented runner who was undertrained until he hooked up with his coach five years ago. (He ran 3:16 on 3 or 4 days a week of running. I don't know when he ran his 3:16, but presumably in his early to mid 60s.)

- He responded extremely well to his new coach's training.

- He recovers extremely well.

- He is a more natural marathoner than Whitlock ever was. Whitlock was essentially a mid-d runner who managed to run very fast marathons by working on his endurance.

Anyway, here is my week.

M: off.

T-F: 5 miles.

SA: off.

SU: 8 miles.

I could run only five times, but still managed to run 8 miles on Sunday, the longest since September. I am hoping to extend my long run to 14-15 miles by March, since I am planning to race a half in late April. I am not sure what I will race as "tune-ups." There is a frost bite series that features 15k, 10 miles, and 20k along with a half. I am guaranteed a PB by just finishing any of the first three, since I have never raced those distances. But I am afraid that I won't be able to run 20k faster than my half PB, and 15k and 10 miles will probably be slower than the split times in my half PB. So I will probably not race any of them. At least not next year.

So the scoring is top three not top five? That looks like fun -- where do I join me a club?

Oldie, here is how Pete Magill put it once: "As for the week 6 workout in that 6-week program, you do fewer 400s because you have a goal race coming up at the end of the week and NEVER want to train too hard the week of a race (16-20 x 400 might trigger mitochondrial adaptation, which you DON'T want just before you race, because it puts the mitochondria that are adapting out of commission for at least 10 days!)." In his book Build Your Running Body, he gets a little more scientific about it but that's the gist.

An Q&A article on a great runner, a cancer survivor and researcher, a former 50+ poster and our good friend.

http://www.jackdogwelch.com/?p=20330&fbclid=IwAR2jSFiu1reenw69QJ7vSr01gRS4LJqfWFDu58X0Qq7BPWGGWpWgDtiZX1s

KCgeezer wrote:

So the scoring is top three not top five? That looks like fun -- where do I join me a club?

Oldie, here is how Pete Magill put it once: "As for the week 6 workout in that 6-week program, you do fewer 400s because you have a goal race coming up at the end of the week and NEVER want to train too hard the week of a race (16-20 x 400 might trigger mitochondrial adaptation, which you DON'T want just before you race, because it puts the mitochondria that are adapting out of commission for at least 10 days!)." In his book Build Your Running Body, he gets a little more scientific about it but that's the gist.

Thanks.

KC - the older age groups score 3 in XC and in Grand Prix road races. The 50s and 40s men score 5 people. You don't have to belong to a team in order to participate, even in Club XC nationals, but you do have to be a USATF member There are no qualifying times; all abilities are welcome. It's lots of fun. Next year's Club XC is at Lehigh in Bethlehem, PA. The 2019 schedule of Masters Grand Prix races can be found here:

http://usatfmasters.org/wp/2018/10/ldr-usatf-masters-grand-prix-schedule/

. This list doesn't include the 5k road championships in Atlanta on August 17 or 5k XC champs in San Diego on October 12.

There are many different teams represented on this thread. If you're interested in joining a team. I'm sure you can get plenty of advice. Most people are members of their local team but many teams don't have geographic restrictions. I didn't have women in my age group who were interested in competing at a national level so I joined a team in a neighboring state. For me, being on a team makes competing much more fun.

lucKY2b wrote:

An Q&A article on a great runner, a cancer survivor and researcher, a former 50+ poster and our good friend.

http://www.jackdogwelch.com/?p=20330&fbclid=IwAR2jSFiu1reenw69QJ7vSr01gRS4LJqfWFDu58X0Qq7BPWGGWpWgDtiZX1s

Ken Martin had some very good advice and his experience that was helpful to me. He was quick to respond and followed up with a status email months later. Good person.

SCgal wrote:

This list doesn't include the 5k road championships in Atlanta on August 17 or 5k XC champs in San Diego on October 12.

Aha, I went to that page for info on those two races. And hey! Now I know how to punch my ticket to Lehigh. Much appreciated.

Dykes vs Ed part 2:

https://canute1.wordpress.com/

So I am posting a wee bit early(51 percent Irish;)

Ok my AMPD1 polymorphism sucks but it also explains a lot.

Since I am pretty sure no one else who posts on Letsrun let alone this thread has this SNP(single nucleotide polymorphsim) it probably is not of much interest however .....

The following is just my take on what I have read I have no back ground in biochemistry.

We all make ATP to run our SO and FOG when we gets a going faster over time we buildup a bunch of ADP so our muscle cells process this into AMP which buildups so our muscle cells process this into ATP and IMP. The IMP is released into the bloodstream as ammonia. MY version of the GENE that codes for the enzyme(AMPD1) to process AMP does not work at all. So I build up a lot of ADP,AMP and AMPD1 which eventually diffuses into the blood stream and gets processed by my liver and kidneys. So this results in more muscle fiber damage as well as lower performance of the muscles as this crap builds up.

If I had normal AMPD1 I could run faster and recover quicker so in some way If feel vindicated kinda like somebody saying Hey Charlie the jokes on you there is no solution to the puzzle ha ha ha! Ok I can take a joke no problem.

My solution is to slow down progressive overload so I stay away from overloading ADP and triggering the problem but still train hard enough to stimulate adaptation. I have done this before while building base. Once I get a solid base I will add a small amount of tempo stuff and see how it affects me. Any brain fog or cramping or slow recoveries and I will adjust without feeling frustrated cause I now know what is up. NO VO2MAX as this stuff will just destroy my fitness. I will do sprints and maybe up to 400s but with full recovery . Racing will be limited to once a year the good old Hayward Classic age graded mile is gonna be it!

So onward and upward let the truth set you free so on and so forht

btw I did run a 60/300 followed by a 79/400 at South Eugene because I ran 89/400 on amazon 10 minutes before and just was not going home like that.

Sounds like you are the anti-Karnazes, Charlie. I may have missed this but how can you be sure if your diagnosis?

KCgeezer wrote:

Sounds like you are the anti-Karnazes, Charlie. I may have missed this but how can you be sure if your diagnosis?

IMO the Gold Standard for diagnosis is DNA Sequencing

DNA Sequenced by 23andme:

Gene: rs17602729(T;T)

AMPD1 deficiency homozygous This is found in ~2% of all caucasians. The majority of people with the AMPD gene are asymptomatic, but in response to vigorous exercise, others have symptoms including early fatigue, muscle pain and muscle cramping.

A few years from now everyone will get sequenced as it will be a key part in precision medicine.

Many years from now they will have gotten the CRISPR technology working well enough to where everyone will want their Genes with known crap single polymorphisms fixed. Things like sickle cell anemia is a single SNP gene transcription they are getting close on this one.

Who would not want the best version of FOX03 or APOe

FOX03:

Brings up a whole new PED game;)

Charlie wrote:

23andme and promethease extremely interesting but not for the everyone.

Agreed. Personally, as soon as identical twins get identical results I'll go for it. BUT: Currently, they do not.

"I have severe reservations about the utility of genetic tests that indicate one individual’s propensity for certain conditions outside of a clinical setting; if you don’t have a PhD in genetics, these results can be misleading or even troubling." Adam Rutherford, Geneticist (Author of the article below).

"I have severe reservations about the utility of genetic tests that indicate one individual’s propensity for certain conditions outside of a clinical setting; if you don’t have a PhD in genetics, these results can be misleading or even troubling." Adam Rutherford, Geneticist (Author of the article below).

90 percent of this article is just background material.

People need to quit swallowing the regurgitated bull sheet from guys like this. So he did not like his results regarding APOe tough cookies bud.

I took the RED PILL

*Week 393*

Seasons Greetings, 50+ers!

A little better week, but it's still mostly run/walk. Got out 5 days with about 3-4 miles each time. Tried to extend out the run portions on 3 of those days, but I get to about 2 miles (all in the mid-8 min/mile range), and the right-side lower-back/right hip have been tightening up, and especially getting real tight in the piriformis area; typically, a few minutes of walking have settled things enough that I could then go for another mile, but that's about it. This area has always been a weak link and this lay-off has just exacerbated the problem. Also, my toes have also given me more trouble on this reboot, as such, I've done more run/walking in my Hokas than I typically do. As the toes rebuild strength, I'll slowly transition back to lower cushioning. The lower back issue will also slowly improve as I build endurance and drop some weight along with appropriate hip exercises and stretches.....this is going to take a while.

Charlie's done a lot of research on himself and I applaud his efforts; I think I'll just stick to training and accept where it gets me to. Did you all read the article in Runner's World?

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a25378840/running-keeps-your-body-younger-study/

It's Merry Christmas here, but I'm sending you all my warmest wishes this holiday season, however you celebrate.

All the Best!

PS-I suppose next week, we should reflect on the year that was (it's been awful for me,) and discuss our running plans for the year to come (always looking on the bright side.)

PPS-We've already smashed the record for yearly rainfall here in the Bluegrass, and it looks like we'll be getting several more day's worth before the year's end (starting with today.) It'll be a soggy, foggy Christmas.

Good Morning,

Facing my own challenges and infirmities of age, I had very busy work week and missed two days of training. So I skipped a mid-week race, had a Holiday party at a friends house on Friday evening, and ran a race on Saturday exhausted. Naturally it did not go well. At times like this it is easy to jump to conclusions when the best plan is to simply stay on track.

Monday: AM- 3 miles easy/walk; PM- 4.25 miles easy/walk

Tuesday: 20:00 easy; 6 x 600m critical velocity @ 3:14, 3:21, 3:24, 3:26, 3:24, 3:20 / 1:00 rest; 400m walk; 4 x 200m repetition @ 53, 53, 48, 49 / 100m walk; 10:00 easy/walk

Wednesday: off

Thursday: off

Friday: 4 miles easy/walk

Saturday: 2 miles easy; 4 x strides; YMCA Christmas Run 2 mile: 8:45 mile, the ran walk rest of the way, 18:46 (lifetime worst race)

Sunday: TBD

Hope every one has a very nice Holiday Week!

Igy

This turned into an unplanned recovery week for me. That’s probably for the best as the legs had been tired recently. Sunday was a planned day off. Monday was a weather-related unplanned one. The weather was still crummy on Tuesday, but I managed 42’ of jogging. Wednesday was a routine off day. Thursday was my only jog that was typical for me(52’). Friday was a regular off day, then a sudden family obligation kept me on the sidelines on Saturday.

So it was a whopping 94’ of jogging last week. And no golf. Sigh.

Merry Christmas to most.