50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

ow! 2 X root canal is no fair. I hope and trust you'll get some compensatory good luck in near future.

good back-to-school week for me with:

M 1:00

Tu 1:25

W 1:00

Th 1:20 with hill repeats

F 1:15 + 45:00 x-t

Sa 1:00 + 1:15 x-t

Su 2:30 with 30:00 at approx. marathon pace [mostly by effort though I got some tenths (of a mile) timed running back and forth across Wilson bridge alexandria VA to/from National Harbor MD as part of a deliberate effort to work on my fear of heights -- turns out that "if all those cars can drive across it at once, it's very unlikely that my running across will make it collapse" is somewhat, but not fully, reassuring

have a great week,

Dave

Late posting for me this week after being off on a Labor Day weekend backpacking trip, unreachable by any means of communication. It was a pretty low ambition trip, driven by the fact that our dog, Tasman, is now nearly 11 and doesn’t have the stamina he once had. Five years ago he could do any hike that my husband and I could do and still be running circles around us at the end, but while we’ve all declined with age since then, dogs decline a lot faster than people. Tasman still seems to enjoy going on backcountry adventures with us but we have to be cognizant of his limitations and we feel bad if he comes back exhausted or very sore. So this was a 2-night backpack trip at 7,000-8,000 feet of elevation that consisted of two short days, about 4 miles each with modest amounts of climbing on reasonably good trails, and a tougher middle day, about 9 miles with more climbing on rougher trails. 17 miles in three days isn’t a lot of work even going up and down on trails, but sitting on a rock by a lake reading a book sure beats sitting on the sofa watching TV and since I had to pack in everything I ate, I don’t think I ran a calorie surplus.

Prior to the trip, I was having a good week. My heel for some reason calmed down a lot, and from Monday through Saturday morning I was able to get in 45 miles of slow running plus a 90-minute spin on the bike. Hopefully I can re-hydrate well enough tonight to be ready to go Tuesday morning.

Allen1959, good job on meeting your 5K time goal! I’m not sure what you mean about settling into a too-easy pace. It’s not as if you ran a big negative split. But then if your major goals are longer races, perhaps not being able to blast off right off the line in a 5K isn’t such a bad thing.

Igy, great news on the continued improvement!

63, I certainly hope you don’t have a fracture. I stress fractured a metatarsal about 12 years ago right after running a half-marathon that had an extremely steep downhill section. I couldn’t run at all for about two months but once it healed it stayed healed and I’ve never had any recurrence of that or any other stress fracture.

oldmanaged52, that’s a heck of a long run!

SCgal, good luck on the triathlon! The one and only tri I ever did (almost Olympic distance) had the swim in a pool, sort of cheating. The open water swim part of triathlons always looks terrifying to me even though I grew up in the water and consider myself a good, if not fast, swimmer. Just be careful that you don’t get kicked in the face.

Have a good week, everyone.

Thanks amkelley. This morning I completed 8 miles of runnning/walking including 3 miles of intervals with our masters club; with me doing my own thing. Cecil would enjoy backpacking if I could somehow leash him to a pack. My business partner took his dog on a rigorous backpacking trip this summer; he said his dog slept and laid around for days afterward.

Igy

amkelley wrote:

... I’m not sure what you mean about settling into a too-easy pace. It’s not as if you ran a big negative split. But then if your major goals are longer races, perhaps not being able to blast off right off the line in a 5K isn’t such a bad thing. ...

amkelley -- The camping/hiking sounds idyllic. Yesterday, my son and I were chatting about how long it's been since I did any camping or serious hiking. He still does ... well, camping, anyway. Takes his 10-month old son with him, which might be more of a challenge than an aging dog, even without much hiking!

Yes, my long term goal is a longer race, but for the moment I am focusing on the 5K. And that distance is so short and intense, it's critical to be ready to roll from the starting gun.

The problem Friday night was that while I hit goal pace for the first mile (6:06), it was just way more difficult than it should be, and I felt the need to back off to essentially threshold pace (6:25) to recover before getting back to 6:06 for the third mile.

Partly mental weakness, partly not the best warm up. (Also, the first mile had a 25-ft elevation gain -- not much, but I could feel it).

In two weeks, I will try a different type of warmup that more mimics a repeat workout. In the workouts, it's the second or third repeat when I am running efficiently -- much faster at the same effort.

So, I will try 3 minutes at 5K pace before the race starts.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

This morning I completed 8 miles of runnning/walking including 3 miles of intervals with our masters club; with me doing my own thing.

That's terrific. It must feel so good to be out there doing some real mileage again, at whatever pace.

My business partner took his dog on a rigorous backpacking trip this summer; he said his dog slept and laid around for days afterward.

Last year we took Tasman on a backpacking trip in which the first day was 7 miles on some extremely rough trails, nothing but loose sharp broken rocks. Not only was he very tired the next day but his feet were extremely sore (not cut, but red and swollen) and he could barely walk. We did get him to walk out the next day after warming up out of the soreness, but it really scared us--what do you do if you're hours into the backcountry with a 60-pound dog who can't walk? So we bought hiking boots for him to protect his feet, and we now put them on whenever we're in sections that are very loose and sharp. They're a pain in the neck to put on but he looks really cute in them and doesn't seem to mind wearing them, and they really help with the foot soreness. He still gets tired and sleeps really, really well in the tent at night, but he can then go the next day.

63 wrote:

RF reader. Nice workout on Wednesday. I love cutdowns. Your adrenalin gets really going towards the end. I bet you were psyched on that 4:19. I also bet you felt great when you finished the workout. That's what it's all about. Keep up the good work.

Thank you. I usually do not check this board midweek. But I really appreciate your feedback. Here is another example that unlike the rest of this board, people on this thread are nice to mid-packers. And I hope your foot injury isn't a serious one.

Here was my week.

M: swimming 1000m.

T: 4 miles / 7 miles.

W: 2km warm-up, 1200mx5. 1km cool down.

R: 4 miles / 7 miles.

F: 7 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 12.2 miles.

I extended the track workout to 1200mx5. It went 5:34-5:30-5:27-5:23-5:07. Aside from the last one, this was "even effort." I have always been a slow starter, but as I aged, and my training got more endurance-oriented, the pattern has become even more extreme. I am not going to worry about this, since my focus is on longer distances. In a half marathon, I have plenty to recover from my slow start.

For those of us who run very regularly and who can only hope to be reasonably fit, because they never, ever, ever get skinny, it is hard to hear you all complain about being told that you are too thin. It has kept me from posting for months as I don't like getting "fat shamed". (i'm talking to you, too, Charlie! ;))

Sure to normal people, I look just fine, but even at my best, I look fairly fit, but never very thin. I run quite a lot, do my strength and core work and eat very healthy, but I've hardly lost any weight. I even gave up sweets and greatly reduced my carbs as they real weaknesses - still no real change in the scale.

I can only wish to be super thin.

Muddy girl wrote:

I can only wish to be super thin.

This would be a good time to link to one of a handful of articles I found incredibly helpful before I started running:

"Dadbods have the ultimate advantage. They are men with a good amount of muscle tone, which means that they have a higher metabolism. Out of any single persona, the dadbod is physiologically the easiest when it comes to weight loss.

"If you have a dadbod and feel like weight loss is difficult, try being a 5’3 180-lb woman then get back to me."

This story was a dose of reality and humility that I needed at the time. I wasn't happy being at the upper end of BMI with a big grab handle, but hey, I was past leukemia and if I ever got serious about exercise, my dadbod would do the rest. Speaking of exercise ...

This week I stopped a hill workout early. It called for 6x90 secs uphill at 1500-3K pace. I peaked with my third rep. Reps 4 and 5 my times dropped significantly and I felt spent. I didn't feel bad, but I had that hunch I hear about from other masters, that the next rep just might put me in a world of hurt, so I stopped. But I wondered -- did I run the first three reps too hard, and were the next two reps more like normal? It's hard to know when dashing uphill.

I don't know about "dad bod"s, but I have to say that menopause really messes with your metabolism. The disruption in one's sleep really doesn't help and causes your body to produce cortisol.

Already Tuesday afternoon here so I am a bit late to the party.

My week.

Mon. A leg weary 1 hr 30 min mtb ride. Legs a bit beaten up from the previous Saturday adventure. Also freezing cold, howling gale and I had a scratchy throat and snotty nose.

Tue. Morning hike in the hills.

Afternoon 10 km run 300 metres elevation gain in 1 hr 5 min.. Struggling still with knee stiffness.

Wed. A very chilly hour of kayaking in the waterhole.

Thu. 10 km with 470 metres elevation gain running the uphills but cautiously jog/hiking the downs. 1 h 37 m.

Fri. Annual urology appt. followed by a haircut and a big dose of can't be bothereds. A set of aching legs and arms, the arms reminding me that 60 pushups 20 dips and 20 chins are too much.

Sat. Start of my Septembet plan to try and be in some sort of shape for my 33d 4 Peaks Race in November.

4 climbs up the old fire road at Mt Piper 4.7 km 420 metres elevation gain in 58 mins.

The downs were still a bit awkward the ups were fine.

Sun. Fathers Day here in Australia.

Stopped at my old stomping ground on the way to my daughter's.

3 good climbs up my old favourite. 5.6 kms and 490 metres elevation gain in 58 mins.

At 177 cm and on a good day 78 kg I am not the skinny runner type. The last few months the body fat has increased and muscle mass decreased. My weight had been nudging near 80 kg mainly because I was frustrated with injuries. I am already able to see and feel changes as I have been more disciplined with things. My good over 50 performances (19 for 5 on trails, 3d O50 at 4Peaks) were at around 75 to 76 kgs but with pretty low body fat and good muscle definition.

I would be pleased to be back to that come November.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick has some very interesting material on health food supplements intermittent fasting ect.

One of her typical videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQZz5PklDB0&t=371s

Cheney was hot I should have listened;)

Ahhh… The up and down roller coaster days of heathy running for the Masters runner. It all used to come so easy!

So, with said, my week wasn't too bad. Here's how my 27.4 mile week played out. The Friday tempo went very well but I may have payed for it the next two days. Not sure if the heel pain was from the tempo, the car ride, walking a lot, the humidity, excessive eating or all of the above. It seemed to be back to 'pretty good' on my run Monday night. My PT told me a few years ago the pain may never go away 100%. I just need to manage it. I think I'm mostly doing that.

M: 6.3 @ 7:25/mi. Hot and humid 95/72 dp. Not a bad run. Heel sore after the run this evening. 745,729,724,719,721,709

T: 6.0 @ 8:00/mi. Very warm and humid morning. Easy steady run on the grass. Heel 3-2. 833,758,755,756,751,742 weighed 160.0 after run.

W: 3.0 @ 8:07/mi. Easy morning wakeup run, Heel a 1-2. Avg HR 117 821,800,758

Th: walk. 2 miles. Heel still about a 2. Cool'ish 54 degrees! pm: walk. Better than sitting on the couch! Heel ok, barely noticeable.

F: 7.7 @ 7:11/mi. Good run before heading upNorth for the weekend. 746,741,735...then 639,631,6:09.67... then 1.73 @ 7:30 cooldown. Felt strong on the 6:09.

S: 4.4 @ 8:38/mi. Run mostly on grass at the Schuss Golf course. Heel very sore today.

S: Bagged the run. Heel still sore. Felt better later in the day. 2 mile walk on the Schuss golf course instead

Still shooting for that 30 mile week. Maybe this week.

Have a good one,

Dave

Lavinia Petrie ran 1 h 43 m at the state half marathon on the weekend. Lavinia will be 75 next week. She looks set for another vollection of age group records.

Racerdb wrote:

My PT told me a few years ago the pain may never go away 100%. I just need to manage it. I think I'm mostly doing that.

Dave, what is the exact diagnosis of the heel pain? I have been assuming the pain in both my heels is a symptom of insertional achilles issues. The left, though, seems a little different -- often much more sore to the touch. Still, it seems that eccentric heal drops are working well to manage both heels.

In any case, good to see you back at it. Your patience and fortitude are admirable!

Allen1959 wrote:

Racerdb wrote:

My PT told me a few years ago the pain may never go away 100%. I just need to manage it. I think I'm mostly doing that.

Dave, what is the exact diagnosis of the heel pain? I have been assuming the pain in both my heels is a symptom of insertional achilles issues. The left, though, seems a little different -- often much more sore to the touch. Still, it seems that eccentric heal drops are working well to manage both heels.

In any case, good to see you back at it. Your patience and fortitude are admirable!

Achilles Tendonosis. From what I understand its a chronic overuse injury that accumulated over time. Rather than a single event that happened and hurt me. It may have been Achilles Tendonitis long ago but went untreated and morphed into this? I've googled and seemed to research for years now and still really can't get any definitive treatments that work or prognosis. My log notes show I first noted heel pain in the Fall of 2013, hamstring strain earlier in the year. Since then I've tried heel dips, wobble board, nite boot, ice, heat, electro shock, not running... It feels as good now as it has in years, but it still hurts at times.

I'll take any advice anyone wants to offer. The pain these days feels different than in the past. Its almost a burning feel.

Dave

Muddy girl wrote:

I don't know about "dad bod"s, but I have to say that menopause really messes with your metabolism. The disruption in one's sleep really doesn't help and causes your body to produce cortisol.

Yes! Sleep disruption is a huge deal. Anyway, I'm not sure I was clear in the posting above but I wanted to just acknowledge that this thread about being skinny had gotten kind of gendered, as they say, so it was good to get your take. Middle-aged guys do get slower and more injury prone, but we're also dealt a favorable hand biologically. If we just get out and run, or bike or swim or climb (or in mo'paks case, all of the above), then we get body rewards and we get them faster than many women. And there's no justice in that, because guys don't get a fraction of the social pressure to look good that women do.

I'm afraid to actually put this in writing but my 3+ year old severe heel pain is, basically, gone. Granted, I think mine is closer to PF than the Achilles side so what fixed my apple may not fix your orange. Also, my training is only about 20% of yours...but as I and mopak have noted rocky trails have been like natural chiropractic treatments and I swear that's been the fix more than anything. I did not used to like trails, still try to avoid them, but they are the cure for me...right now...with this training....at this age.....

We are all "experiments of one". I zipped through menopause without a single symptom except the obvious one. No mood swings, no hot flashes, no weight gain. During the decade of my 50s my weight was far more stable than during any other decade in my life. My athletic performance plummeted through that decade, but otherwise I felt fine. My take...

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

... This morning I completed 8 miles of runnning/walking including 3 miles of intervals with our masters club ...

Igy, your recovery/comeback continues to be impressive and inspiring! You've got me thinking about getting involved with a club, again. And, speaking of club-running, a running acquaintance of mine was with SMTC back in the 70's, training under Joe Douglas. I'm not sure if his time there overlapped with yours, or not. He grew up in SoCal and was a 14-something 5000m guy ... he's in his later 60s now.