50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

lucKY2b, thank you for keeping this thread going for all this time! I, too, am thrilled to see Mike Smith still racking up the Triple Crown wins at his age. A lot of jockeys quit not because of injuries or age but because they can no longer tolerate the level of starvation needed to keep their weight down. Perhaps Smith is one of those lucky guys with a small enough skeletal structure to be able to make weight without extreme deprivation. Or perhaps he’s just more disciplined than most.

Coyote, I don’t think I could have run 5:33 for a flat-out mile even when I was at my very best, but I understand it’s disappointing relative to what you were expecting. You probably are still not fully recovered from Boston.

Allen1959, nice job on the 5K. It bodes well for the near future.

BigMango, excellent race! I cannot imagine racing at 88F. I’ve run a few races (5K-10K) where the temp was in the low 80s with bright sun but low humidity, and even under those conditions I didn’t have the confidence to push myself all-out.

I turned 60 eleven days ago, and I am now starting to wonder whether I will ever start a race in the 60-64 age group.

I started the week knocked out by the upper-respiratory bug I caught while grading final exams. I did a little easy spinning on the bike trainer on Weds and Thurs, and felt good enough to try a short run on Friday. But the calf that had cramped during the half-marathon two weekends ago, and then re-cramped twice last week, felt sore from the start. I turned around after a mile and a quarter, but by the time I got home I was hobbling badly and could barely walk the rest of the day, and it got no better over the weekend. I feel like I’ve completely torn some muscle deep in my calf, one that is vital to pushing off at the end of the stride. I can only walk with about 2/3 of a normal stride and can just barely push down the parking brake in my car, and the idea of even a single running stride seems impossible.

At least I can still ride a bike. I put in 32 miles yesterday and 40 miles today out on the flats and felt quite good doing it. I guess I’m stuck on the bike for the foreseeable future. I'm trying to count my blessings and appreciate being generally healthy, and that the weather is currently really nice for cycling.

Congrats Allen, CM and others for the excellent results.

Another good week.

34 miles on 4 runs incl 14+ yesterday in 6:58/mi

4 swims totaling 6.5 miles inc 2 mi today in 61:48

2 spins for 45 and 50 min

3 lifting sessions

Achilles feeling best in 10 months. 2 weeks until Ann Arbor.

Rtype how about racing your way into race shape ?

L2B polarized training is keeping me in the game walk a lot, run hard 2 x a week and intermittent fasting yes sir so far so good!

Allen 10 lbs easily accounts for the slow down but I wonder why you do so much hard stuff when your ultimate goal is sub 3?

Them 5ks are too close to vo2max painful.

Good week also took extra day off which worked out well. Oh what a difference a day makes. If I had tried to do a hard run yesterday it would have been a dud and today I would have felt like crap instead I took yesterday ez. Today had a GREAT workout.

2 runs

Week 2 May 13

Run 1 LT 20 minutes treadmill incline/mph

7/7 4/8 1/9 1R1 x 8 plus 12 minutes alternated between 7/7 and 4/9 calf ok HR 162 a bit low but that is good felt good

Run 2 Neural Muscular, Rep/Vo2, LT

NM 3 x 45 seconds hill hard

Vo2 3 x 750 meter hill 10 secs less than all out walk down recovery 2:49 HR 186, 2:44 HR 192, 2:39 HR 192+ which is as high as I have ever measured

LT at end of third 750 hill 1 minute rest then 6 minutes at LT to top of steep hill HR 162

2 weeks ago I was only able to do 1 750 meter hill in 2:39 basically all out so this is promising partially getting over crud but also better fitness. I finished the workout feeling like I could do more . Also this is the first time this time around where I got up on my toes and felt good.

Onward!

Easy 5 mi. today to heal my legs. Wow, my calves are super sore after yesterday's track session, but it was a good one.

Warmup and strides (2 x 50 and 2 x 100). 2 x all out 200 m -10min. rest between. 26.07, 26.73. Hand timed though, reaction to gun alone would be another .23, so take with a grain of salt. 6x150 srpint/float/sprints.

Looks like I might just be able to replicate my best 200m time from age 40 at age 50. Maybe come within a second of my best 400 time from age 40 after all.

Looking to race a 400 at the Wine country Senior games on June 23rd.

Keep the Faith Cush. We are praying for you and your family.

Coyote... your strength by tempo sessions is solid. Wondering what you really could do for a competitive track mile/1500.

Rtype... you toeing the Shawsville 5k this summer? My 2 boys and I are. Oh the humidity for us fair weather northwesterners.

Wrapped up high school coaching yesterday at Hayward Field where our guy got the Bronze in the 800 in 1:54. Tough year for him due to 2x soccer injuries. 13 days ago he could not walk. I'm full of pride and joy for this tough guy.

I'm a ways out to FEEL fit again but am gonna try to get there by Spokane Track Nats. Spontaneous 3 x mile along my 8 miler last week... 6:20-6:02-5:52 each with 3mins rest. That sub 6 on The Ronaldo Field really hurt.

Be well all.

KP

Charlie wrote:

I wonder why you do so much hard stuff when your ultimate goal is sub 3?

Them 5ks are too close to vo2max painful.

That sub-3 goal is kinda pie-in-the-sky for autumn 2019. For now I just want to enjoy some racing and do well in the 15K come August.

BTW, below is my 20-week build coming off that three-month layoff (Oct-Jan). I added workouts beginning Week 14, backing off total volume a bit (V=VO2max, T=Lactate Threshold). To keep improving my knees, I try to work the Nautilus machines once or twice a week.

Week total - Longest - Workouts

06.0 - 03.0 - (3-mi time trial @ 27:01)

08.0 - 04.0

21.0 - 06.0

23.8 - 06.9

28.6 - 07.7

30.6 - 08.0

30.2 - 12.0

41.2 - 13.5

11.9 - 06.9 (planned stepback)

43.0 - 12.2

50.8 - 16.6

53.1 - 16.9

36.3 - 16.9

47.6 - 16.6 - (V - 5x800m)

44.7 - 12.1 - (T- 3x1mi) (V- 5x800m)

48.6 - 16.6 - (T- 3x1.5mi)

53.7 - 16.6 - (V- 3x1mi) (T- 3x2mi)

55.7 - 18.0 - (V- 6x800m)

21.8 - 08.0 - (T- 4x1mi) (V- 5K race)

KP, not sure what I'd do for a mile (5:10 or so with some focus, rest, good weather and a field to pull me along?). I did run sub 5:40 for a couple of the miles in the Virginia Beach 8K, but don't seem to be back there yet. But anyway, seem to be stronger at 8K and up. That higher end speed-endurance takes specialized training and I just do the minimum of pick ups and fartlek at mile pace or so. There's a possibility of a road mile in late summer (Flint or 5th ave. mile in NYC), but that's

Coyote Montane wrote:

KP, not sure what I'd do for a mile (5:10 or so with some focus, rest, good weather and a field to pull me along?).

You have me wondering what I could run for a mile.

At age 16 -- 17:33 5000m, 4:51 mile

At age 43 -- 17:10 5K, 5:06 mile

At age 58 -- 19:35 5K, maybe 5:45 mile?

Haven't done any miler-type workouts since high school. Not sure if I would dare to these days.

Allen1959 wrote:

Coyote Montane wrote:

KP, not sure what I'd do for a mile (5:10 or so with some focus, rest, good weather and a field to pull me along?).

You have me wondering what I could run for a mile.

At age 16 -- 17:33 5000m, 4:51 mile

At age 43 -- 17:10 5K, 5:06 mile

At age 58 -- 19:35 5K, maybe 5:45 mile?

Haven't done any miler-type workouts since high school. Not sure if I would dare to these days.

I bet you can run 5:45 without any specific training you have the speed and endurance.

Common ground fast twitch moving up and slow twitch moving down it is truly an Equal Opportunity Race

Thank you for all the good replies on the treadmill walking incline question I had.

Since I aim for a triathlon I already do a lot of nonrunningtraining, plus the area I live is very hilly so sometimes I have brisk walks into the mountains outdoor, but treadmill walking can certainly be an idea for next winter.

Mon. 32 minute kayak session in the lake then a gentle 3 km jog in 20 minutes along the railtrail in the dark.

Tue. 3 easy runs up Roo Hill with the third continuing all the way up to the top of the McIvor, all up 4 km with 305 metres elevation gain in 40 minutes. 3 km walk back home down steep trails in 30 minutes.

Wed. 29 km mountain bike ride with 440 metres elevation gain in 1 hr 43 minutes

Thu. 5 x running up Stafford Lane hill. I was going to do 3 running and 2 hiking but smashed out number 3 a minute faster than the first 2. No.4 was ok but I did struggle on no.5. The hill is a bit over a km long and climbs 190 metres with a bit of 40% grade near the top. I walked/jogged back down after each. I tacked on a little extra climb at the end to get to a km of elevation gain. 11.6 kms,1030 metres gained. 2 hr 8 minutes.

Fri. 38 minutes of windy kayak in the lake.

Sat. Gentle 3 km jog in 19 minutes and a rough terrain 4 km hike home in 50 minutes.

Night mountain bike spin on the railtrail 21 k in just over an hour.

Sun. 10 km run, hike, run. Rugged terrain.

Started with a steep rocky 2 km run then hiking up and down steep untracked spurs. Ran a steep km climb then hiked down some steep stuff and finished with a km of hilly running on smoother terrain. 580 metres gained and out and about for 2 hours.

A good solid week of fun exercise.

10000 posts is fine, it's having to scroll by 500 pagelinks that's ridiculous, especially on a smartphone.

Has anyone asked the Andersons if there is a preference on this conferencing software to replace the current navigation with:

>

i.e., one line of navigation instead of screenfuls of links?? Even their antiquated system should have this option.....

oops, the conferencing software knocked out my text because I used the Greater Than key. Let's try that again:

(First) (...) (499) (500) (501) (...) (Last)

That is a typical conferencing-system navigation menu. I love old-timey websites as much as the next guy, and maybe if I'm on this thread a few months I'll get used to it. But I still find having to scroll past links to pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 etc. etc. etc. incredibly annoying.

Anyways,

Age=53

Couch to 5K=8/2016

Current=18:14 5K

Goal=faster

M - 6x1000m cruise(3:56) with 3:56 recovery

Tu - rest day

We - 12x200m at 3K (42-43s) with 200m slow jog interval

Th - 6.1 miles

F - hotel treadmill, 5 miles

Sa - waited out that thunderstorm, ran 5.9 miles

Su - LR 8.1 miles, nice 'n' easy

My track work has been really limited until now. I've preferred the simplicity of hill reps and fartleks. Now that I understand their role in my training, I'm adding routines from SoCalPete's big book. I could've gone with Dr. Jack's but I like the specificity of Pete's workouts. Above you're looking at my very first cruise interval and first 200m intervals at 3K pace. I'm trying really hard to stay in my prescribed times (and I do check Pete's ranges against the Daniels formula), avoid bonking and as someone up there said, HAVE FUN.

Hoping to sub-18 on a fast course in Kansas on Mem. Day.

Well we could start a new thread with the first post containing a link back to the first 500 pages:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4064465&page=500

Amkelly,

Left calf 10 years ago caused me to stop running for many years and your description of the pain is very similar. Prior to the calf, never understood why everybody else was constantly fighting injuries. The calf led to plantar fasciitis and also would just lock up randomly during runs. The first few minutes of every run were the worst - just hoping it wouldn't freeze up and leave me hobbling the rest of the day.

Tried (cortisone, trigger point massage, anti inflammatories, yoga, meditation, months of not running…) and none provide more than a brief reprieve. Finally threw in the towel and became a cyclist. Years later after a month in and out of critical care, I concluded cycling and my personality were not going lead to a long life.

The first few weeks back running were fine but once I was capable of handling speed, the calf froze. It would happen during the first few steps! Worse than it was when I gave up on it years earlier. Months of frustration almost put me back on the bike.

My cure, I know we all are different but it cured my calf issues within a week, happened while reading a book in bed. I laid my calf on the bed frame. It extends 10 inches above the mattress and is about 1 inch thick. It was slightly painful but for lack of a good description, it was a pleasant pain. A couple pages more into the book and the calf just gave in and released! An hour later of experimentation of how best to release all the tendons/muscles from my knee to my ankle resulted with a new calf. A couple times I feared ripping something but eventually most the tight stuff released. The next day my calf was bruised but within a week I was able to run fine.

Now almost 3 years since figuring it out, no calf issues of any significance. This type of release therapy takes lots of time and patience but I do it while reading so it isn’t an issue. Rollers were of no help because it was too difficult to apply the linear force needed. Also have a six inch square piece of plywood that accomplishes the same as the bed frame.

I’ll stop now - a little long!

pure wave massage / jack hammer with the trigger point attachment:

https://youtu.be/-PvSqdejJKU?t=348

Find knot(s) lumps ect. appy this sucker HARD GOOD BYE KNOT. Calf muscles sore for a day then they feel GREAT.

Also use this on my feet

First time I used this on my calf muscles it was like my gastrocs were stuck to my soleus muscles it took a week of trice daily sessions before all the scar tissue was broken up.

Also I changed my running style and use my hip and gluetus muscles to push off also quit landing on the outside mid foot

Work on ankle flexibility daily

Charlie wrote:

pure wave massage / jack hammer with the trigger point attachment:

https://youtu.be/-PvSqdejJKU?t=348

Find knot(s) lumps ect. appy this sucker HARD GOOD BYE KNOT. Calf muscles sore for a day then they feel GREAT.

Also use this on my feet

First time I used this on my calf muscles it was like my gastrocs were stuck to my soleus muscles it took a week of trice daily sessions before all the scar tissue was broken up.

Also I changed my running style and use my hip and gluetus muscles to push off also quit landing on the outside mid foot

Work on ankle flexibility daily

I like these guys...they're funny. ?

BigMango and Charlie, thanks for the suggestions! I'm not going to do anything right away while the pain is still acute, but once it settles down into the "tight but not really sore except when trying to run" phase, some kind of deep pressure may be the thing to try. The acutely painful phase is already fading. Yesterday it was hard to stand up on the pedals while cycling, but today I could do so with only mild discomfort.

For years I've been hounded by calf cramps, but until a few years ago they never started until AFTER a race. I would finish the race, walk over to my car to change out of my racing shoes, put just a little too much pressure on my ankle in the wrong direction while taking a shoe off or putting one on, and immediately be seized with a screaming cramp. I eventually took to leaving my racing shoes on for a few hours to let my lower legs relax. That worked for a while, but about two years ago I started getting calf cramps near the end of half-marathons, initially just in the final quarter-mile but now starting as early as 11 miles. This has ruined most of my recent races.

There's still my chronic insertional Achilles problem, which is on the opposite leg from the current calf issue. But one thing at a time.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Good morning.

Thursday I had a consultation with my oncologist before my fifth R-CHOP infusion. Three of the four nodal sites are tracking toward eradication however the fourth may need radiation therapy after the sixth infusion. A seventh and eighth R-CHOP is sometimes recommended but with the success on three of the four sites and the potential general toxicity the radiation is the best option if necessary. A PET scan at the end of June will determine if the extra treatment will be necessary. The general symptoms of chemo have dissipated but the number of “foggy” days has increased.

Are you aware of this paper on PET scans?

One thing I can’t understand is why oncologists bombard their patients with PET scans, which produces a significant amount of ionizing radiation (~25 mSv). So, it’s bad enough that some cancer patients will suffer iatrogenic damage from the chemo & other drugs – and now they’re hit with high-radiation PET scans during & post-treatment.

I shake my head more & more at the sick care system. I lost my spouse a few years ago to drug-induced organ failure from the potent drugs that were being used to treat a vaccine-induced autoimmune disease, so essentially a double-whammy. A toxic vaccine & toxic drugs. So much iatrogenic damage with the system. Does the system even care? Probably not since Big Pharma runs the show with their plethora of industry-funded safety studies and multi-billion dollar profits.

And the the sick care system is the now *3rd* leading cause of death in this country! This should be the top story of all the mainstream media! But instead we get treated to hours & hours of coverage of the "Royal Wedding." Wonderful priorities in this country...no surprises there.