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impermanence

8 years ago 06/27/2011 11:29am CDT
re: no longer stressed

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Thought I would open up the discussion around Rick Sayre's untimely death this week. Here is a 57 year old, vegan, low cholesterol, regular running, formerly world class who finishes a 7 mile runner and dies of a heart attack. It brings up the issue of how vulnerable we are despite putting in the the miles. Humbling.
I wonder if this will result in any of us over 50's checking in with the cardiologist for a nuclear stress test, echocardiogram etc.I would suggest anyone with a family history of heart attacks give this consideration. That said, running overall is positive for cardio health according to what I have gleaned from reading and talking to cardiologists. I do not plan to alter my routine however I will continue on my asprin and statin. And of course, continue to put out the intention to live in the present moment, let go of worry, and appreciate the goodness all around.

Curious how Rick's passing has touched others in their training and relationship to life?
old guy II

8 years ago 06/27/2011 12:57pm CDT
re: impermanence

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I had a very satisfactory week of 43 miles with a mid-week 3k on the track. It was my first race since XC Nationals in February. It was an evening track meet, and after a somewhat hectic workday, I found myself not in a racing frame of mind and with a certain amount of anxiety about stepping on the track for a race effort performance after so long away from it. I probably have not run faster than 6:45/mile pace in training since February, and have done no interval work yet this season. Nevertheless, I decided to spike up and give it a try. To my pleasant surprise I ran almost dead even splits all the way at about 6:02/mile pace. With this positive racing experience, I plan to do a local 10K in a week and then a couple of more local track meets before gearing up for Fall XC season again.
Recovering Cancer Patient

8 years ago 06/27/2011 1:50pm CDT
re: SactoMaster

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SactoMaster,

I am sorry to hear about your health challenge. I am another PAUSATF 50+ runner who has had to deal with cancer. I did surgery and 6 months of chemo last year. I am not sure how chemo compares to radiation in terms of debilitation. My experience was that running was one of my best friends during chemo. I was determined to run though it, and was able to do so. The chemo slowed me down a lot, as the drugs killed off red blood cells, but I was still able to put in ~ 50 miles-per-week. I finished chemo at the end of September 2010, and was pleasantly surprised at how quickly my running came back. By February 2011, I was back running pretty much the same times that I was running a year earlier, before my cancer diagnosis.

I am convinced that my runner's fitness and determination helped me get through the treatment and recovery. Be confident that yours will do the same for you.
AK-53

8 years ago 06/27/2011 2:12pm CDT
re: impermanence

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Obviously this has given me a lot of pause. Heart disease runs in my family. My dad died at 54 from an MI, a day after doing a 14 mile run, 2 days after climbing a 14000 ft peak. He'd had a history of heart attacks from 3-4 years earlier, so while shocking we knew it was there.

My first cousin died in his early 40s, totally unexpected. and a great grandfather on my paternal grandfather's side also died ca. 40s or early 50s from heart disease. Most of the of the other men on my father's side lived long, 70s, 80s and 90s, and that's going back several hundred years.

Not a vegan, and I don't do a strict diet. I do eat red meat about once a week, but always lean. Don't eat egg yolks or sausage. Ice cream maybe once or twice a month.
I had a nuclear test in 2005, and everything was clear. Maybe time for another.

I have high cholesterol. In the 1980s I skied at US Nationals and they were doing a study of body composition and cholesterol. I was off the charts on both ends, for two years in a row with 4 and 5% body fat and cholesterol in the 220s and 230s. Have waffled on taking statins for about 10 years. I promise to get the nuclear stress test and cholesterol screening this summer.

impermanence wrote:

Thought I would open up the discussion around Rick Sayre's untimely death this week. Here is a 57 year old, vegan, low cholesterol, regular running, formerly world class who finishes a 7 mile runner and dies of a heart attack. It brings up the issue of how vulnerable we are despite putting in the the miles. Humbling.
I wonder if this will result in any of us over 50's checking in with the cardiologist for a nuclear stress test, echocardiogram etc.I would suggest anyone with a family history of heart attacks give this consideration. That said, running overall is positive for cardio health according to what I have gleaned from reading and talking to cardiologists. I do not plan to alter my routine however I will continue on my asprin and statin. And of course, continue to put out the intention to live in the present moment, let go of worry, and appreciate the goodness all around.

Curious how Rick's passing has touched others in their training and relationship to life?
SactoMaster

8 years ago 06/28/2011 9:34am CDT
re: Recovering Cancer Patient

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Thanks. This post really helped. I have been running through the treatments and maybe a bit too much. I tried to do a fartlek on Saturday and it wiped me out for the next 2 days. After reading your post I went out for a run this morning and didn't feel all that bad. Thanks again.
lucKY2b

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8 years ago 06/28/2011 11:19am CDT
re: SactoMaster

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SactoMaster wrote:
Thanks. This post really helped. I have been running through the treatments and maybe a bit too much. I tried to do a fartlek on Saturday and it wiped me out for the next 2 days. After reading your post I went out for a run this morning and didn't feel all that bad. Thanks again.

Really good to hear! Thanks for the update.

Vertigo

8 years ago 06/28/2011 2:41pm CDT
re: SactoMaster

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Leonard- didn't Steve Gallegos get treated a few years ago? I think he won Nats in your hometown last year so he must be recovered.
SactoMaster

8 years ago 06/28/2011 4:43pm CDT
re: Vertigo

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I'm not sure who Steve is. I was 2nd at Nats last year and someone else won.
Recovering Cancer Patient

8 years ago 06/28/2011 5:20pm CDT
re: SactoMaster

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You're welcome.

Sometimes, when I got discouraged by how slowly I was running, I reminded myself that most people, even in the absence of cancer and much younger than I, couldn't be doing those runs.

Obviously, the primary objective is to be cancer-free. Do what you need to in order to get through this. But, don't let the cancer treatment stop you from running or any other activities that you enjoy. This approach will pay big dividends physically and mentally. The goal is to be fit and cancer-free again.

Maybe we can race each other someday in the 100 -104 age group.
Vertigo

8 years ago 06/28/2011 5:40pm CDT
re: SactoMaster

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Indoor M50 800 WR holder. Won both M55 800/1500 last year.
I think that he is based in CO, likely will be in Sacto for World's:

M55 800 Meter Run
========================================================================
USATF: * 2:06.53
Name Age Team Prelims Finals
========================================================================
Finals
1 Gallegos, Steve M55 Unattached 2:12.01 2:09.43
2 Duncanson, Rob M55 Km3d Athletic Club 2:20.28 2:11.83

SactoMaster wrote:

I'm not sure who Steve is. I was 2nd at Nats last year and someone else won.
lucKY2b

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8 years ago 07/03/2011 3:26pm CDT
re: SactoMaster

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**********************************
Week 6
**********************************

Happy July 4th to y'all Americans. Hope you're having a great weekend. We'll be having some relatives arriving today from out of state for a few days. We'll grill, we'll share, we'll do some 4th of July activities, etc..

Sacto, this appeared in our paper this morning, and thought that you might find it affirming.
http://www.kentucky.com/2011/07/03/1798073/cancer-survivor-running-bluegrass.html

As to the impermanence's question regarding the untimely death of Rick Sayre and how it might of affected us, I had thoughts about it, but I didn't want to put down something that was not well formulated...I'll try to get to that at some point; it deserves to be discussed respectfully.

Not much this week. After I decided I'm putting off racing for a while, I really had to just take a break and step back for a minute. You train and train and think you are making progress, and when something derails you, your thought is to get through it as quickly as you can, and get back to what you were doing. You guys helped me to reflect more, and while I could be running right now, I really have to ask what caused my knee to start hurting in the first place, and address that first before I get back on the roads. It comes back to the hips as I said last week. So I've decided to stop running until the knee pain is completely gone (it's coming from the classic IT band syndrome, as it turns out), and work solely on the core strengthening and flexibility exercises to get the mid-section in line with my legs. I never had issues like this when I was younger, but I spent the year with equal amounts of running and speed-skating training, so I was definitely getting the core work from the speed-skating stuff. So that's my week, just a lot of core work and stretching.

Topic: Non-running related physical activities? What else do you do regularly that is active, but isn't part of your standard training regimen. I guess I'm thinking about how we live in a fairly sedentary time in history, where one isn't required to be physically active to make money or provide for ourselves. Lexington, my home town, was just listed as the "laziest" city in the country....not a badge of honor, to be sure. They must not have interviewed the people I know, for I don't sense we're all THAT bad...but the city does have a "use your car" mentality. For me, about the only real things I do regularly is walking and yard work. My job doesn't require that I be particularly active, although I can be on my feet a lot as an educator.

OK. Hope everyone is having a great week!

PS-Good luck at World Master's msr, spikez, others?
Spikez

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8 years ago 07/03/2011 5:25pm CDT
re: lucKY2b

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Thanks for the good luck wishes. I finished my last sharpening workout this morning and I feel really really ready! And very happy about that, since my outdoor season started off slowly due to recovery from achilles bursitis/tendonitis. It's still an issue but a much more minor one than it was 6 weeks ago. Physical therapy and a few weeks off helped a great deal.

I have a "sit on your butt" job. I'm an accountant and I slave over a PC and a ten-key all day. The most activity I do on my job is walk to meetings. Our employer has an on-site fitness center and I used my lunch hour for weight lifting and resistance work. There are days when that 45 minutes of lunchtime physical activity keeps me sane!

SactoMaster

8 years ago 07/03/2011 5:38pm CDT
re: lucKY2b

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lucky2b,

Thanks for sharing that article, it was helpful. I should be able to resume training in the fall and I would like to find something to point to as well, maybe next indoor track season? Not sure yet. I have run a few marathons but really don't want to go that route. Look forward to watching you geezers next friday night. I'll be out there yelling.
Muddy girl

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8 years ago 07/03/2011 6:46pm CDT
re: lucKY2b

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Lucky - I've been doing an IT stretch for a couple of weeks and I think it helps - It also hurts so much because I'm tight there.

It's from one of Pete's RT articles on stretching. Sit in a modified hurdler's stretch, except keep you knee close to your outstretched knee. Bend forward towards your outstretched leg. I can't tell you how painful this little stretch is for me - but apparently it is helping.

Did you run in the xc club nationals when they were in Lexington? Despite having a severely sprained ankle, I enjoyed that course!
naia champ

8 years ago 07/04/2011 5:21am CDT
re: KP

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Hi kevin- I met you in Spokane. Living in Korea now, and recently joined that sub 3 in 5 decade club. I'll be in Daegu looking for Tom R.
mopak

8 years ago 07/04/2011 6:47am CDT
re: naia champ

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Mixed bag for me.
Longish run monday, just 1/2 hr barefoot tuesday. Bike,kyak wed. Thu and fri were 110min runs up on the rugged terrain in the Nat Park at the back of my home. I had another night shift (thought I was done with them for awhile!)on friday night. I did get a short nap before sat's race. Raced ok but did struggle the last km. 26.30 for a trail 6.8km. That effort left me very flat on sunday where I could only manage 27.40 over a similar course, although heavy rain did make it a bit slippery. I dropped off the pace early so decided to show myself some mercy and just tempoed it. Managed 16 plus k for the day.

Other activities.
I've had active jobs most of my life, farming, gardening, labouring etc. and for many years commuted by bike or foot, still occassionally do.
My current job (psych nurse)is not so active apart from the odd bit of wrestling.
I never drive around town.
I will often walk 3-6kms, sometimes with my wife, sometimes on my own, often with the camera. Our town has a huge marsupial, reptile and bird population and lots of historic homes and old mining sites. I enjoy exploring, discovering and photographing.
I work in the garden a lot. I have an acre so there is plenty to do. Mowing the lawn is a time consuming task itself. Quite a bit to do around the house too, it is 100 plus year old.
I do some overnight hikes with my wife a few times a year.
I usually do some grape picking during our 5-6 week season.

Happy 4th of July to the US. It is also my son's (20th) birthday.
old guy II

8 years ago 07/04/2011 11:34am CDT
re: mopak

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I just got back from the local July 4th 10K. It was one of those races that was a reminder that thinking about good training doesn't keep you as fit as doing good training. I was just about exactly 2:00 slower than last year at 40:48, which probably was good enough to win the 60-64s, but definitely a disappointment. Now, it's time to get the mileage up more consistently, and then add a little quality before Fall XC.

On the other activities question, I have a sedentary job, but have always done all my own gardening/yard maintenance work, and the odd bit of home improvement construction and furniture building. I have been a lifelong surfer, and have dabbled in masters swimming and triathlon in years past. The surfing seems to be very good for helping maintain core and hamstring strength.

Happy 4th and good luck to everyone in Sacramento.
Charlie S

8 years ago 07/04/2011 1:54pm CDT
re: impermanence

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Many years ago I read The AntiOxident by Kenneth Cooper
He maintains that too much running is bad for you.
He also admits to running too much and offers what he calls his antioxident cocktail to minimize the damage.

Amby Burfoot wrote an interesting response to the book.Which was basically says the positives of running outweigh all the negatives

My values are more inline with Coopers I try to get the most out of running with the least amount of damage or risk
Charlie S

8 years ago 07/04/2011 2:01pm CDT
re: Charlie S

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OOPS
Title is The Antioxident Revolution by Kenneth Cooper.

Charlie S wrote:

Many years ago I read The AntiOxident by Kenneth Cooper
He maintains that too much running is bad for you.
He also admits to running too much and offers what he calls his antioxident cocktail to minimize the damage.

Amby Burfoot wrote an interesting response to the book.Which was basically says the positives of running outweigh all the negatives

My values are more inline with Coopers I try to get the most out of running with the least amount of damage or risk

The last couple of weeks I have ran only a few times but each run was GREAT each run was done with joy no goals
no time no schedule ect

Also not being in top shape has one nice advantage.It takes less effort to feel good.When I am in great running shape I gotta run pretty hard to get to the physical and mental state I think we all know so well.
Mike Lundgren

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8 years ago 07/04/2011 5:56pm CDT
re: Charlie S

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I have worked in Cardiac Rehab for over 20 years now as an Exercise Physiologist (Master's level from the U of Iowa and Ball State), and run for almost all of the last 35. I just returned from the national American College of Sports Medicine conference in lovely downtown Denver, and listed to people review research that shows that an hour OR MORE of daily aerobic exercise shows greater decreases in morbidity and mortality. 30 minute/day is a start, an hour a day gives more, and 90 minutes daily shows more yet, though the numbers level off some.

I personally don't believe Cooper's interpretations. How much do I do? About 25 to 35 miles per week, plus some cycling, since my legs don't seem to handle much (just turned 60, YEAH!). With my family history of heart problems, I do take a statin to lower my slowly increasing cholesterol, I just don't want to face the surgeon's scapel! Poor Rick, who knows, maybe it was not coronary disease, maybe his blood potassium levels were low due to
whatever. I wish we could ask him if he'd had any signs of it. There's more to sudden death than just coronary disease, unfortunately.

Personally, I ran 11 miles yesterday in 92 minutes in Des Moines, and 4 slow miles today, along with a 50 minute bike ride. No symptoms, and a local cardiologist told me that as long as I don't have any, I should not worry about a stress test, but if certainly have one if I have ANY suspect signs. Comments?