50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

That was the Mission Bay Marathon mid-January 1972 in San Diego. That particular race happened to have some of the better California runners since it was before the next semester. Also, runners were trying to get the Olympic Trials Standard. Course was nice temperature was ideal.

Old Walker,

One interesting point, at that time things were changing. Prior to about 1968 most people didn’t run past their college years, maybe to age 25. A large marathon race would be 100 entrants but those that ran were pretty darn serious. Shorter’ victory seemed to change that. The demographics and counterculture movement had an influence as well. Living a monastic life in pursuit of something pure...running faster.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Old Walker,

One interesting point, at that time things were changing. Prior to about 1968 most people didn’t run past their college years, maybe to age 25. A large marathon race would be 100 entrants but those that ran were pretty darn serious. Shorter’ victory seemed to change that. The demographics and counterculture movement had an influence as well. Living a monastic life in pursuit of something pure...running faster.

Igy

Actually there were quite a few post-collegiate running marathons prior to 1968. You may have been too young to remember those days.

I was referring to Olympic Trials qualifying runners. Those that made a commitment to run seriously after college.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Old Walker,

One interesting point, at that time things were changing. Prior to about 1968 most people didn’t run past their college years, maybe to age 25. A large marathon race would be 100 entrants but those that ran were pretty darn serious. Shorter’ victory seemed to change that. The demographics and counterculture movement had an influence as well. Living a monastic life in pursuit of something pure...running faster.

Igy

Large marathons prior to 1968 had several hundred participants. Many of the top runners were military...all were Olympic contenders.

Yes prior to 1968 several large marathons had fields of several hundred participants. The point is by 1976 a large marathon had over one thousand participants. The Western Hemisphere Marathon in Culver City, California was a premier marathon of the period. Checking my records the 1973 Western Hemisphere Marathon had 288 participants, which at the time was one of the larger fields in Southern California. The top ten finishers were 25 years or younger. I would assume five years earlier the fields were smaller.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Yes prior to 1968 several large marathons had fields of several hundred participants. The point is by 1976 a large marathon had over one thousand participants. The Western Hemisphere Marathon in Culver City, California was a premier marathon of the period. Checking my records the 1973 Western Hemisphere Marathon had 288 participants, which at the time was one of the larger fields in Southern California. The top ten finishers were 25 years or younger. I would assume five years earlier the fields were smaller.

Five years earlier, Boston had over 1000 entrants. That’s a premier marathon.

Billy,

I can’t speak about Boston prior to 1974, but when I finished one place ahead of you in 1974 there were 1,978 entrants. That was my point. I will give you the point on nuances of numbers.

Igy

Prior to the late 70s I doubt any Aussie marathon had more than 100 starters.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Billy,

I can’t speak about Boston prior to 1974, but when I finished one place ahead of you in 1974 there were 1,978 entrants. That was my point. I will give you the point on nuances of numbers.

Igy

I never ran any marathon.

Must have been your namesake. He was holding his hamstring when I passed him. So the truth be told he was having a bad day.

Igy

Yes, it has been an interesting evolution of the sport. The races I remember hearing about when I was just getting started in marathons were small but competitive races like Culver City, Avenue of the Giants, Crowley Louisiana's Rice Festival Marathon, Yonkers, and even Boston. (My first Boston still didn't have much in the way of aid stations and virtually no crowd control.) There weren't many races to choose from, so the fast folks would travel almost anywhere for a good race. I'm happy when I see that one of those is still plugging along with small numbers and not a lot of hoopla. We don't need all our races to be huge affairs. I went to the Vermont Green Mountains Marathon in 2007 to cheer on a friend and it was a wonderful little race. Not real fast, but a true hometown atmosphere with everyone out to help and support the race. The local heroes got their due and everyone was home in time for the football game. I'm glad there is still a place for this sort of fun.

My first marathon attempt was in 1977, 9 months after I started running, and was simply using a daily run to kill my pack-a-day smoking addiction (it worked!), starting with ONE city block the first day (I was totally out of breath, so figured that it was time to stop, the next day, I covered TWO blocks non-stop, boy was I on my way).

So I had run a 13 miler and had signed up for the Iowa City MS 1/2 marathon, but, since I could run 13, figured I could go twice that far with the excitement of a race and a number pinned on. And remember, I was NOT part of a track team, so I had zero foundation of running other than that gradual build-up.

By 20 miles, my hamstrings felt like they were going to snap with one more step, and another guy near me stopped to get a ride to the finish from his wife. So I asked for a ride, too. Getting to the finish, I made certain to ask for, and get a finisher's certificate for the 1/2, and told them my time. Those were all hand-written, of course. And so I probably screwed up the timing, too, by crossing the finish line, even though I had bailed out at 20, and told everyone so as I "finished".

So that embarrassment and that vanity of asking for a certificate for the half, was the motivation to put in 20 milers, and so in 1978 I ran that same Iowa City MS Marathon, in 3:34. My lifetime best came at Grandma's in 1984 with a 2:54 (officially 2:55 but am taking off the time it took my to cross the start line).

Interesting, too, that I had a mild connection at that time to MS, because my Mom's sister had MS back then (she's still alive now, though unable to walk). Since then, my mother developed MS too, and has since passed away from hers. It's a horrible disease, being totally dependent on others to move you, bath you, clean you, dress you, etc. My appreciation for my own running for the last 41 years is beyond description.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

MikeF sent me this photo: #330 1st Doug Schmenk, #165 2nd Fred Lands and #180 Young Igy. I believe this was around the ten mile mark which we hit around 51:00.

https://i.imgur.com/kkoxSYt_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Fred still lives in my town. I occasionally see him riding his bike while I'm out running. I've always known his name but didn't know much about him. I think he's about 9 years older than me. Surprised to see his name as I wasn't sure he was known outside of here!

Dave

Cool Dave. All this is fun reading. Keep the stories coming. It's all very motivational.

On another note, last night my wife asked out of the blue if maybe I shouldn't be thinking about another 3 hour shot this spring while I am still fit. "Maybe London?" Maybe she really does love me :-)

Old Walker

Cool Dave. All this is fun reading. Keep the stories coming. It's all very motivational.

On another note, last night my wife asked out of the blue if maybe I shouldn't be thinking about another 3 hour shot this spring while I am still fit. "Maybe London?" Maybe she really does love me :-)

++++++++++++++

Great write up Old Walker. Did you win your AG at Houston, though?

xlev2 wrote:

Great write up Old Walker. Did you win your AG at Houston, though?

Sadly, no. My brother was second and I was fourth. The first five in the AG were all within three minutes, and the guy in front of me was four seconds ahead... though he was actually three seconds behind. He crossed the start line seven seconds behind me. All quite confusing :-)

Good stuff though. I am just turned 59 and would kill to be anywhere in your range or even higher (slower). I don't read this thread much but did you post much ahead of the race about your training? Solid solid effort on what sounds like a harder type day for conditions.

Old Walker wrote:

xlev2 wrote:

Great write up Old Walker. Did you win your AG at Houston, though?

the guy in front of me was four seconds ahead... though he was actually three seconds behind. He crossed the start line seven seconds behind me. All quite confusing :-)

Call me paranoid but this seems like the ploy of a guy who lacks a kick;o)

He delays his start knowing that even if things get tight he can keep his buffer for the win.... go ahead and out kick me cause I outsmarted you. JUST KIDDING.

All this marathon talk makes me wishful wistful wanting to try but man I know my calves would start to cry and I am not a suck it up do or die type of guy.

So Hayward Field will no longer exist after this summer they are tearing the whole thing down. Ghosts of the great ones where will they go. So Hayward Classic is May 6th a real last chance meet.