50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

thanks Allen! marathon at age 16 I blame on the influence of my 3 older brothers and my brother-in-law, plus lack of x-c and track teams at my very small high school. I was a road racer from the start of regular running at age 14. My first marathon was the same year as my first track mile, which was at an all-comers meet at my current place of employment, American University.cheers,Dave

Allen1959 wrote:

Just a few comments --

[

[quote]dhaaga wrote:

My A goal is to break 3 hours ...

B goal 3:12 (my PW from age 16 -- hoping 40 years of training has helped

Dave, best wishes this weekend. Enjoy! Impressive that you've never run slower than 3:12 ... And what possessed you to jump into a marathon at age 16?!

Just a quick note to keep our 50's+ friend MikeF and his wife (and dog) in our thoughts. His Facebook posts have kept us updated on their evacuation from the West Coast fires. His last post an hour ago said his home is still standing but the fires are still threatening.

Praying for rain!!!

Dave

Havent raced much in last year - too many injuries.

But yes top 3 not a problem if I can train for 4 months without injury - not an easy task when brain still 25. No singles for me. Just swinging for the fence LOL

Good luck

cheers

amkelley wrote:

the well-known "student dream" where you can't find the classroom for your final exam, or you suddenly realize it's the day of the final and you've been enrolled in the class all semester but have never gone to class.

amkelley, I have had this dream hundreds of times, maybe thousands of times--no lie.

The reason is, when I was in college, there REALLY WERE times when I had been enrolled in a class all semester but never went to class until the day of the final.

On such occasions, sometimes I had trouble finding the classroom or even the building where the exam was being given. In real life.

My haphazard life in those days reminds me of this quote:

"...he had fallen on the beat and evil days that come to young guys in their middle twenties." - Jack Kerouac, "On the Road"

Needless to say, I did not excel in college. Unlike some other people who became professors. ;-) But I did eventually get my degree at age 26, at the same college where I started, which had offered me sophomore standing right out of high school. I coulda, woulda, shoulda had my bachelor's by age 20 and master's by age 21. Instead, I am now age 59, and STILL don't have that master's. Pretty sure I'll get it before I die, but it may be a near-run thing. (See what I did there? I worked in the word "run" to this otherwise totally unrelated comment.)

Keep safe MikeF.

mo'pak wrote:

Keep safe MikeF.

Third that. We are the getting smoke in Idaho.

I had a fun race on Monday. It was Thanksgiving and I did the Waterloo Octoberfest 5km. I ran 18:19, a one second PB and won the overall by 11 seconds. It was really fun, there were three pace cars in front of me and the race was run just before the Thanksgiving parade so there was actually people watching and cheering. I lead from the first kilometer all the way to the finish.

Training is going well, combining 1/3 elliptical and 2/3 running seems to be working and this week I have added in some strength training.

Today was my first run since Thursday, October 5, nine days ago.

I have been resting my right hip, which hurts for no apparent reason, except that it has literally been a recurring "sore point" for me since high school.

After today's slow treadmill run of 6.32 miles in 1 hour, my right hip is worse than it was nine days ago, so clearly I have to make changes.

My new plan is to blow up my training routine and cut back to 1 slow mile x 3 days per week, and see how that goes.

If I can't even run 3 mpw without pain, it may be time to drive to the glue factory and drop myself off.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

If I can't even run 3 mpw without pain, it may be time to drive to the glue factory and drop myself off.

Brittle, I know how you feel (and I think a number of others on this forum do too).

This will likely be of zero help to you since I don't know exactly what is the nature of your hip pain, but here goes. 26 years ago, about eight weeks after running my Olympic Trials qualifying marathon, my hip/butt suddenly started to hurt in the midst of a fairly tough hill run. It felt like a cramp that wouldn't let go. I eventually had to quit and walk/jog back to my car. Well, the long and short of it is that I battled that injury for about the next nine years. I would go through periods where I could run moderate mileage for several months, and I also had periods of many months at a time when I couldn't run a step without an unacceptable level of pain. I saw several different medical professionals, none of whom could find anything wrong with me apart from enormous inflexibility almost everywhere. They all prescribed stretches, which never helped and usually made the problem worse.

After about nine years I discovered the key: I was sleeping the wrong way, often on my back, which shortened the relevant hip/butt muscles. I started forcing myself to sleep on my side with my legs pulled forward, and eventually trained myself to wake up whenever I flipped over onto my back. Gradually the problem got better and eventually disappeared. By then I was 42 and would never again be as fast as I'd been at 33, but at least I could run again. I've had many other injuries during the subsequent 17 years but am rid of that one.

You might try sleeping in a different position. What have you got to lose?

Brittle since you have had the issue for so long what has worked in the past? You gotta have a few fixes in your bag of tricks. Off the wall try barefoot on the mill.

http://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/otros-deportes/noticias/8659125/10/17/Martin-Fiz-buscara-este-domingo-en-Chicago-su-quinta-victoria-en-un-Major.html

Ran 2:28 at Chicago so only left with London WOW. Talk about a pro with tons of miles running extremely well at 54.

I made, that already prevailed in New York 2015 (2:34:33), Tokyo 2016 (2:28:29), Boston 2016 (2:30:57) and Berlin 2016 (2:26:32), if it wins the Chicago 'Major' would come even closer to the challenge of achieving the triumph in the six 'Great World Marathons' in their category (45-55 years). The next would be in April 2018 in London.

100 miles of hiking 25 or so barefoot most of it doing my 20 minute hill

2 runs 20 minutes each speed play felt pretty good

foot hurt a bit a day after the second run but I think it was from doing the downhills too hard I was feeling good.

Charlie wrote:

Brittle since you have had the issue for so long what has worked in the past? You gotta have a few fixes in your bag of tricks.

Charlie, you are right; I do have a few fixes in my bag of tricks. First possible "fix" is to back off mileage for a while (i.e., rest, although it hasn't helped at all so far). Second possible fix is to be much more diligent with my stretching. Third possible fix is to go back to using orthotics in my shoes, which seemed to help several years ago, but I got away from using them. Fourth possible fix is to look into various strengthening exercises. Fifth possible fix is to visit a running lab near Boston which specializes in runners' issues. There is always something to try.

amkelley, your idea of trying to sleep in a different position is interesting. My body too has been noted for inflexibility over the years. However, I'm thinking the recurrence of my right hip pain is due to a fundamental biomechanical problem, which perhaps has worsened in my old age due to general weakening of my musculature which may have been able to compensate to a greater degree when I was younger. It's just a theory, but it makes sense to me.

Amazing what Martin Fiz is doing in the marathon. I looked him up in Wikipedia and it seems to me that he does not have great speed for an elite racer; in his youth he could barely break 14:00 for 5K. But I guess he can run all day at a good clip, and obviously he must be quite durable to keep it up at age 54.

Good genes and excellent biomechanics! In my opinion, those are probably the two most important factors in running success. Of course a good work ethic is also important, but without good genes and excellent biomechanics, a good work ethic can go pound sand.

Brittle sometimes you have to find something new. Every step you take begins and ends with your feet. Barefoot is in my bag of tricks.

Well I don't know if it's something in the water but I also have an ache. Mine is in my foot and it came on all of a sudden. I had been walking around an awful lot at various errands and venues and although I was wearing cushioned shoes, the floors were mostly very hard concrete or wood. Now my foot is hurting me when I try to flex and rise up on it. I'm fine generally walking around but I tried running and within half mile a bad ache arose. So I think I have to rearrange training to include weights, elliptical, and swimming as I have access to an indoor pool. This really bites because our weather has been very nice and I was having fun at the track.

Add me to the Walking Wounded list. At least for a little bit, hopefully not for long.

Sending good vibes out to MikeF. Hopefully his house has survived the fire. Bad stuff in that area of the country.

Good running or healing to everyone this week.

*************************

Week 331

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Salutations, fellow Semi-Centenarians! Like others, I share my prayers and concerns for those affected by these crippling disasters, MikeF, in particular.

Another week of plodding along. Didn't quite make it to 20 miles on 5 days of running:

Sun: Off

Mon: 4.2 (7:47 pace, but with breaks) humidity was brutal

Tue: 4.1 w/2x800+2x400 (3:14,3:15,83,84) 1:00 jog between 800's, full recovery for the 400s. Torrential downpour during the 400s.

Wed: Off

Thu: 4.1 variable (7:50 avg, 3rd mile @7:11)

Fri: 3.5 fairly easy (7:57 pace)

Sat: 3.5 mixed terrain (8:57 avg)

Not getting enough sleep is really catching up to me; felt like I was dragging all week. My feet (arthritis) hurt more than usual this week; not sure if these are correlated. Did get my bloodwork back, and all the numbers were normal, but the B12 was on the very low-end of acceptable range; may be part of the reason I'm feeling listless these days. Started taking B12 supplements, we'll see if that helps. Only additional comment on the week was Saturday's short little jaunt out here at Jenny Wiley State Park. Started out on pavement, then went on to a leafy trail at lake's edge that was a bit dicy. Then had to climb some stairs and steep terrain to get back up from the shores. Finally, the last mile or so was on an hilly, abandoned (or at least unmaintained) road that was extremely rutted and broken up. It was a relatively slow and short run, but it left me utterly gassed (probably easy-peasy climb for Coyote or Mo'pak.)

Sorry about your hip woes, Brittle. I think there are plenty on here that empathize with you on that. Do you use an elastic band? There are some really good exercises for working those stability muscles that seem to get stressed. Could it also be a pelvic tilt issue? I know I struggle with that. A PT specialist here also recommends doing what he calls an "over/under" exercise, in which you set up a couple of ropes about thigh high and make yourself side-step over the first, then crouch below second, then repeat going the other direction. It's supposed to help open up and strnghten the hips. Just a few thoughts.

Thanks for the props on the 1-mile race; nice races by a few of you all last week, too. Kudos. That's really all I've got this week. We're still out at the State Park today, so I'm off to enjoy some more nature trails. Hope you've had a good week! More fall race reports?

All the Best!

hoping for the best for MikeF and healing wishes to all those coping with injury.

Hartford marathon yesterday went well for me. I'd hoped to break 3:00 and finished 33rd OA (1st M55-59) in 2:55:13.

fast course it seemed, and decent weather [a little breezy at times, and humid, but good cloud cover and probably high 50s most of the way before warming up after I was done].

I was aiming for 6:45-6:50/mile but just kept cranking out 6:40's, making the math easy -- I use Keith Dowling [local marathoner who was first American at Boston one year] concept of breaking the race into 9 three-mile "laps", the last one being mercifully shorter, so I was hitting 20:00/lap pretty closely.

I don't think anyone passed me in second half, though one gang of three including the #s 5 and 6 women pulled farther ahead. Miles 14-22 are an out and back, and I counted that I was 36th at that turnaround, so I didn't pass too many either.

1:27:09 by my watch at halfway, so around a 1:00 positive split.

Hip adductor noticeable by mile 2, painful by 10, and causing me by 17 to urge myself "make this one count, because we're never doing this again!"

Don't know about that vow just yet, but after marathon DNF's the past couple Falls, I am very pleased to get one on the plus side of the ledger, accomplishing my main running goal of 2017.

Shoutout to Pete Magill. I tweaked my supplemental routines a bit this year, incorporating more of his stuff from Build Your Running Body and The Born Again Runner, and I think it's helped.

resting [except for watching football] today, cross-training this week, and running aimlessly for fun for a while thereafter before setting next goal and training cycle plan.

have a great week,

Dave

Mon. 1 hour mountain bike ride. Mechanical issues, time for a new casette, chain and jockey wheels.

Tue. 12 kms. 1 hr 5 min run over some rolling hills in the Knowsley Forest.

32 mins kayak up the Campaspe River before work.

Wed. 12 kms. 1 hr 20 min run, 315 metres elevation gain. Up Roo Hill and through rugged terrain.

Thu. Mt Juliet run. 4.4 kms up, 920 metres of elevation gain in 1 hr 5 mins. The last km climbs a tricky 444 metres over rough ground. Very greasy after rain. I had to crawl the steepest section known as the "Laundry Chute". That km took me 28 mins.

The 4.4 km descent was pretty interesting as I couldn't stay on my feet on the "Chute" and had to do a bum slide down the 400 metre section a 50 % grade. The rest of the descent was plain sailing with the last km in 3.54.

I am still trying to get the stains out of my shorts.

Fri. 38 mins. kayak on the lake.

Sat. Mountain bike ride on Mt Alexander circuit. 23 kms, 610 metres of elevation gain. 1 hr 22 mins.

Sun. 20 min mtb spin out to the forest then 8.7 km trail run on a few hills then 16 min. spin back home.

Another solid enough week.

The last 10 weeks I have averaged 44 kms of running with 1550 metres of elevation gain. Also 3 hr 30 mins on the mountain bike and 1 hr 15 mins kayak. Consistant if not very impressive.

Congrats on the race dhaaga! Impressive.

Brittle I can certainly empathize, but hips are one of the few things I have not injured (yet) in my long list of injuries. I do know from experience that the elliptical does increase hip strength, however. If you are like me then you have fairly long lists of things you have tried. My only advice is to not quit and keep trying new things. We are only limited by our creativity and desire.

Mon = day 13 of no running

Tue = Hard hike 2000 foot climbing….4 miles…

Wed = Kayak’d 2 hours

Thr = Hike 3 miles, ended up running 10 min to beat the rain

Fri = 11 min easy mountain run

Sat = 12 min easy run

Sun = 13 min easy run

I take the Columbus Day holiday week off every year to do some hiking as usually the weather is the best of the year. But not this year. We ended up dodging rain showers most of the week. My heel was a bit sore after Tues’s hike but it was worth it and I was not going to sit around doing nothing this week. Thursday’s start back to running was prompted by an oncoming rainstorm. So, running was actually useful for something for once…..

Next week will be a semi-Whitlockian progression of M=14, T=0, W=15, Th=16, F=0, S=17, Su= 18. In 2016 I used the same progression and got to 90 minutes 5 days a week. Unfortunately, I tweaked my heel as I added some speed. I’ll need to figure that one out this time. It speaks to genius of the Whitlock method as I went from just plodding my 90 min runs to 6:4X pace 5K hard runs in only a few weeks….which, in hindsight, I should have implemented more gradually….

Have a good one and hope the wind keeps the fire away from Mike F's house.

Good morning, friends. Another week in the log book. Zero running, zero biking, zero stretching, zero strength work. And, unfortunately, zero improvement with my various maladies. Too busy lately to be proactive, but I hope to eventually hook up with a physical therapist for advice and a couple sessions.

Brittle -- I suffered with hip pain beginning in high school. In college I was in pain for my entire one-and-only track season, to the point where I could barely walk after the final meet.

In my early 50s, I finally found a solution. Simple side planks. Weight on my forearm, and hold a straight body position for a count of 50. Times two or three on each side. I couldn't believe how something so simple could solve a decades-long problem.

I am hoping for something as simple and effective for my knees. Then maybe 5Ks next year, and another marathon when I am 60 in 2019.

Have a good week.

-Allen

dhaaga wrote:

Hartford marathon yesterday went well for me. I'd hoped to break 3:00 and finished 33rd OA (1st M55-59) in 2:55:13.

Congratulations! Got the "DNF" monkey off your back, an age-group win, and smashed the 3-hour mark. Fantastic!