50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Aggies Moto: The older we get the faster we were.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Aggies Moto: The older we get the faster we were.

ain't THAT the truth ;}

PS I have that tee shirt

MikeF,

I ran for the Aggies 2006-2008. Wearing one of their sweatshirts as we speak " Plow, Plow, Plow."

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

MikeF,

I ran for the Aggies 2006-2008. Wearing one of their sweatshirts as we speak " Plow, Plow, Plow."

Igy

Ags are my USATF affiliation "as we speak"

"The sooner we're done, the sooner the fun"

Kind of a busy week

M - 6, travel to West Slope, dodging 1st major snowstorm by taking the southern route.

T - 3.1 shakeout AM, 7.5 mile trail run at 7700 to 8200 PM

W - 3.6 AM on smooth trail, 8.1 fartlek PM (2-3 min reps on rolling back path along river--San Juans as backdrop)

Th - Easy 4.7 (big work day and long drive home)

F - 8. something easy, with 650 ft climb to turn-around I was tired)

Sa - 11.6 with 6.4 of tempo work (3.2 at 6:16, 1.5 at 6:15, and 1.7 at 6:24--uphill finish)--@5400'. (stopped at 11.6 and sort of walk-jogged back to car for a mile, so as not to overdo it--getting hot and tired)

Su - 13.5, mostly trail, with some pretty good climbs in there

66 for the week, climbing the wave while mostly staying under the radar, here, there, everywhere. Since May it's been 5-6 weeks between bigger races, so I build up and peak miles/workouts about 2-3 weeks out, back down, race, recover. Repeat.

Have a good week all.

belated congrats to allen1959 on his successful marathon. i like his no-gps/ use the force strategy. i generally don't even wear a watch during races, and no longer own a functioning garmin...

for me, despite regularly checking in on this thread, posting while coaching a h.s. x-c team in-season definitely takes a backseat; long days spent in all facets of the world of running precludes talking much about it…

that said, after spending friday/saturday driving over 500 miles and chaperoning nearly 40 h.s. runners to a meet in clovis, california and getting very little sleep, i enjoyed not setting an alarm this sunday morning, content to get out on a long run whenever it happened. around high noon, after an english muffin and a cuppa joe, i set out on my regular out-and-back 14 miler, where i push the middle 8.

i felt horrible during the first 3 miles before where i start my 8, tom petty’s “running man’s bible” verse floating through my mind… “here's one to glory, and survival, and stayin' alive”--clearly this run was going to be more survival than glory. instead, even the losers get lucky some time, and i picked up the pace, figuring i need to know if i’m just flirting with time; so, with 10 days until my probationary membership on this thread becomes official, and 20 days until my first race as a 50 year old, i managed to turn this car around, running my fastest mid-8 on a 14 miler in several years at sub-6 (47:49). i try to match the first (slightly downhill) and last mile (slightly uphill), and ran both in sub-6. maybe i’m runnin’ down a dream, but i’m starting to feel ready for a fast 15k…

earlier in the week on tuesday, i also did a michigan workout with some of the younger post-collegiate calcoast dudes, running a 5:12 1600m/3:45 1200m/2:30 800m with a 6:05-6:10 mile after each. i bowed out of the 400m at the end, trying to be cautious and knowing my ego may get the best of me even though i was clearly tired (as the 800 indicated), and figuring one 400 less is better than one 400 too many…

hope to see some of you in tulsa? carpe crepusculum,

cush

p.s. to igy, hung out with perry last weekend at an early celebration of my impending 50th; later smtc teammates also showed up, including david mack, claudette groenendaal and danny everett...

Mon. 33 min. kayak session. 1 hr 10 min. mountain bike ride.

Tue. 11.5 kms easy trail jog 1 hr 8 min.

Wed. 1 hr 3 min mountain bike ride. 30 min kayak session.

Thu. 560 metre time trial run (8:32) clim bing 155 metres in elevation on rugged trail. All up 3 kms. Then I drove to a trail near work and ran 5 kms with middle 3 at tempo effort 13.08. Walked 3 kms into work and another 3 kms home that night (10.30 pm).

Fri. Long mountain running session on rugged very steep trails. 16.1 km. 2 hr 12 mins. 1000 metres of elevation gain.

Sat. 32 min. kayak session then a 50 min. mountain bike ride.

Sun. Slow 10 km jog on trails 59 mins.

A reasonable week by my standards. Travel and family commitments on the weekend had me swap my long session to Friday.

Friday's session was great fun, one of my old haunts. I havre run to the top of that mountain well over 100 times, mostly back in my 20s and 30s. It was once the State mountain running champs and I ran a 3d one year and won the masters another year.

This time round I had a wonderful encounter with my favourite Aussie bird, the Lyre Bird, the most skilled mimic in nature. I have heard them mimic chainsaws, dogs, cows etc.

I also had a Yellow Tail Black Cockatoo escort over the concluding stages.

I did manage a 6.53 final mile, not quite matching L2B's effort and mine was down a 10% downhill. Still pleasing to have that turnover at the end of 2 hrs.

Still going ok trying to keep the injuries at bay and having fun along the way.

Just a few comments --

Uh oh. I'm feeling a bit responsible ... Hope it's just a minor setback. Still, congrats on the top-third finish after a three-year layoff!

Dave, best wishes this weekend. Enjoy! Impressive that you've never run slower than 3:12 ... And what possessed you to jump into a marathon at age 16?!

I'm obviously no expert, but I'm wondering if easing back back with just 5-mile runs (instead of 10-plus) might be less risky?

Hmm ... I was largely discounting the biking as "training," considering it mostly therapeutic to address strength imbalances (really seemed to help with the knee issues). But, taking a look at my logs, it was another two or three hours of aerobic work most weeks, which must count for something. Here is the 16-week marathon training, with cycling noted (generally at 18-20 mph, which is a hard effort for me):

Weekly mileage/longest run (bike rides)

53/15 (18,18)

54/18 (18,18)

54/18 (14)

26/14 (24, 27, 35)

51/14 (23, 18, 18)

47/12 (27)

50/20 (18, 22)

30/18 (18, 14)

31/10 (18)

42/20 (72, 18)

47/18 (24)

41/22 (18, 24, 20)

20/14

30/20 (20)

17/5 (33)

14/4

Marathon

Thanks for your comments, and I'm looking forward to seeing the Tulsa results! I have one memory of running in Tulsa (actually, Bixby, OK) -- my last long run before Boston '83, clicking off consistent splits on those perfect Oklahoma 1-mile road grids. So different from the winding, haphazard roads of the Northeast ...

Thanks for sharing you're training Allen. I can see why you race so well.

Tough week for me as I was dealing with a head cold/virus. Only 3 runs and 9 miles for the week. Have a good week everyone.

socalcush,

Best on your 50th, many good years of fast running left. I think Perry will have a good year, like you a nubbie to an age group. I am benefiting by revisiting speed and swing repetitions a la Douglas/Igloi. Focusing on form and cadence is working for me.

Igy

50plus wrote:

67 mile week

2 solid efforts

8M tempo @ 5:38 pace

19M long run 6:34 pace

bunch of 6 milers at 7:15 pace

Injury bug here again may need to cut back this week

cheers

Phenomenal workouts. Do you race or just do the training that indicates top 3 in the US for 50+?

Allen1959 wrote:

Generally, my mileage was low, as I battled injuries. But I scheduled some solid long runs, which, I believe, are the most important component in marathon training. Specific marathon-pace training is unnecessary -- better to do targeted Lactate Threshold work (or just easy mileage), in my opinion.

Hmm... I think Hanson brothers would want to have a word with you. ;) Seriously, it shows how individual our training is. What works for one person does not work for another. It looks like you have found a method that works for you.

My week.

M: swimming 1000m.

T: 4 miles / 7 miles.

W: 11 miles. (9th-10th miles @ 7:53-7:47)

R: 4 miles / 7 miles.

F: 9 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 18.9 miles. (Last mile @ 7:56)

Although it was still a bit too warm, I tried to pick up the pace at the end of my long run. 7:56 is pretty modest, but at least it's a start. I hope I could get faster as the weather gets cooler.

RF Reader wrote:

Hmm... I think Hanson brothers would want to have a word with you. ;) Seriously, it shows how individual our training is.

I haven't researched Hanson training in depth, but, yeah, I know my body responds well to single, long efforts. Just seems like a 20-mile run and two days off nets a greater boost in endurance fitness for me than, say, three 7-mile runs.

Regarding marathon-pace training, Daniels specifically says that it has no physiological benefit beyond an easy-pace run. So, instead of, say, a 15-mile run with 10 at MP, followed by an easy 8-mile run the next day, a better investment would be 10 miles with 5 at LT pace, followed by an easy 13 the next day.

By the way, that is a heckuva week you just posted. Nearly 70 miles if my quick calculation is right. In 45 years of running, I have maybe matched that but a half dozen times. And three of those weeks were pre-season as a walk-on DIII runner senior year (my only collegiate season). Wish I could do that now.

50plus wrote:

67 mile week

2 solid efforts

8M tempo @ 5:38 pace

19M long run 6:34 pace

bunch of 6 milers at 7:15 pace

Injury bug here again may need to cut back this week

cheers

Kiu Iiui wrote:

Phenomenal workouts. Do you race or just do the training that indicates top 3 in the US for 50+?

Alien workout regime for someone over 50!

Yes, 50plus is truly a freak of nature, based on those workouts. I was never anything like him at any point in my life. Now at age 59 I am happy when I can do three runs per week at any speed or distance whatsoever.

Believe me, I would run a lot harder and longer if my body could take it. Sometimes in my bed at night I dream strange dreams about going for long, long runs down a paved country road at night, tall pine forests on both sides of the road, no houses or towns in sight, the only light the moon and stars, with my goal to run till morning. Nothing hurts and I don't feel tired...

Kind of a weak week for me. I departed Friday for travel over the long weekend so my training was light: only 12.44 miles for the week ending Sunday.

Kudos to the rest of you for your training and racing last week! amkelley, hang in there on the bike trainer with your music CDs!

Belated congrats to Allen on the superb marathon. I enjoyed the lead up and play by play!

I haven’t posted in a month. No running in 4 weeks, my longest down time in 35 years. Finally went to doc and told me what I knew, Achilles tendinitis. Had my first PT session last week. I am encouraged with the improvement already. The range of motion is almost the same as the healthy one, and it’s nice being able to walk down stairs in the morning like a normal person.

Swimming, spinning and wieghts have me feeling stronger than I have felt in years. Hopefully I will be able to get to start back shortly.

You got your health, you got your wealth!

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

Yes, 50plus is truly a freak of nature, based on those workouts. I was never anything like him at any point in my life. ...

Believe me, I would run a lot harder and longer if my body could take it.

Brittle -- you and me, both. I may have been able to match 50plus's week when I was was 23. But I didn't, even then. Lower mileage and slower paces.

He is definitely national-class, but responded last week that he would need greater fitness to feel enough confidence to compete against socalcush at the 15K in Tulsa. I can respect that.

Regarding my previous post about M-pace training, here is the exact quote from Daniels' Running Formula, Third Edition, page 51:

"... the main benefit of M running is mental, helping you gain confidence at the pace you plan to race in a coming marathon. Physiological benefits are really not different from those gained during E running."

For me, sustained marathon-pace running is so challenging in training, it has a negative psychological effect. The struggle just fills me with self-doubt. If the only specific potential benefit is mental, no thanks. I will devote a hard workout to T-pace. Or reap the same fitness results of M-pace by enjoying an easy run.

Brittle,

I have a recurring dream, I am running a marathon, where people distract me, where I stop to talk or eat. After a time I realize I am off pace and need to get running. Frustration is the theme.

Igy

Not half fast wrote:

Had my first PT session last week. I am encouraged with the improvement already. The range of motion is almost the same as the healthy one, and it’s nice being able to walk down stairs in the morning like a normal person.

nhf -- Thanks for the congrats. Your progress is encouraging. After a full week off, I have zero improvement. You've inspired me to ask around for a good PT.