50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

As my training has faltered over the past few months, my anxiety about next week's marathon continues to increase. I am no where near the overall mileage I had planned, but looking back through the years, the training has been pretty typical for me.

So, some solace in that.

I've assembled training stats from four previous marathons when I was at similar fitness and training as now. The big difference is my current lack of speed at the shorter distances. I am currently closest to my conditioning at age 40 when I ran 3:12:45, which may be a reasonable target for next week.

Snapshots of the 12-week training periods leading to four comparable marathons:

Age 23

12-week avg mileage: 45

Peak mileage: 68

Long runs: 18, 18, 18, 18, 22

Races: 5K-16:47, 10K-34:12, 20K-1:13:50

Marathon: 2:47:34 6:23/mi)

Age 40

12-week avg mileage: 32

Peak mileage: 49

Long runs: 18, 20, 23, 20

Races: 5K-18:42, 5K-18:55, 5K-18:42, 5K-18:45

Marathon: 3:12:45 (7:21/mi)

Age 43

12-week avg mileage: 46

Peak mileage: 63

Long runs: 18, 18, 20, 20, 23, 21, 20, 18

Races: HM-1:22:47, 5K-17:32

Marathon: 2:56:03 (6:43/mi)

Age 57

12-week avg mileage: 22

Peak mileage: 46

Long runs: 18, 20

Races: none

Marathon: 3:25:27 (7:52/mi)

Age 58

12-week avg mileage: 36

Peak mileage: 51

Long runs: 20, 20, 18, 20, 18, 22, 20

Races: 25K-59:59

Marathon: ???

Re: Previous post. By way of comparison, here are the same stats for my all-time PR marathon, which was 12 weeks after the "Age 23" marathon I listed in the previous post. I will never know my potential, had I ever managed 60 miles per week. Or 80. Or 90.

Just 42 miles per week for the 12 weeks leading up to the PR marathon, and only 45 mpw for the 12 weeks prior to that.

Age 23

12-week avg mileage: 42

Peak mileage: 72

Long runs: 26, 18, 26, 18

Races: Marathon-2:47:34, Marathon-2:45:57, 3M-15:31

Marathon: 2:40:30 (6:07/mi)

Allen1959,

Have a good time. Run within yourself and you will be fine.

Igy

I ran/walked or just walked the past 2 weeks. I was feeling rundown again. I don't know how people in the southern states handle the heat. mid 80's are tough for me to handle.

I volunteer at the Twin Cities Marathon. I'm glad it wasn't today. Looks like better temperatures next Sunday.

Allen1959, a buddy of mine is turning 58 tomorrow. This morning I bought him breakfast at a local diner and gave him a birthday card.

The outside of the card has a color photo of a man standing on a beach next to a small boat that has "YOUNG STUD" painted on the hull.

Then you open the card, and it says: "That ship has sailed."

;-)

Do have fun in your marathon, and try not to feel too wistful about the faster times you ran 35 years ago. "That ship has sailed." Instead, maybe start keeping a list of Age 58 PRs. Then next year, start over with a new list of Age 59 PRs. That is, if you must think about such things (and I think you are the kind of guy who does).

On a slightly related note, and this thought is offered to everyone who posts and reads here: today I read the first half of the recent national bestseller "Being Mortal" by Atul Gawande, which talks about the aging process and how we as a society can do better by our oldest citizens.

Some parts of this book have brought tears to my eyes. I trust that all of you either have aged parents or are starting to think about your own inevitable decline and how to deal with it--and I'm not talking just about race times.

I offer you all the sincere wish that you would read this book and let the stories and ideas in it percolate within you. The issues it discusses are common to us all. We need to think about them. It may benefit us to do so.

Brittle -- Nah, not too wistful about the old times. Just a few regrets about never having trained consistently enough to realize my potential. I'll look for that book, thanks!

Igy -- On marathon race day, I almost always innately settle into the perfect pace right from the start. And it's usually faster than what I anticipate beforehand. It will be interesting to see what my watch says at the 1-mile mark this time. Right now I have no idea! 7:05? 7:45?

LucKY2b -- When you're feeling completely healthy and strong again, you'll be anxious to race. Club XC Nationals will certainly reignite the flame!

Coyote Montane -- What's next on your racing calendar? Nice mile TT, downhill or not.

Mo'oak -- I thought of you as I ran up a mountain trail while on vacation this past week. Wow, no wonder you're in such great shape.

MikeF -- Congrats on the streak. My brother has had great success using streaks as motivation. I should have tried it years ago.

Charlie -- I have a renewed respect for hiking as a workout after my wife and I scaled a small mountain last week. A very small mountain. My quads were burning on the way up. And my knees were screaming on the way down.

SCgal -- Great to see the recent progress. Your determination and success at maintaining fitness through your ordeal is impressive!

old guy II -- That's a heckuva cross-country race. Congrats!

dhaaga -- 4th overall, 1st AG for a 5K "tempo" in the middle of a 3-hour run?! Fun, indeed!

Rtype -- What's the next step for rehabilitating your heel?

Skate -- That's some fast stuff you're doing. I can't even imagine running a 30-second 200.

racerdb -- Thanks for sharing that personal history. Inspiring. I hope you can assemble an XC team.

amkelley -- Looks like you're doing well, transitioning back to running. I hope the Saturday achilles pain was minor and temporary. Some solid biking miles, again!

50plus -- A 70-mile week and a 6-mile tempo at 5:45/mi are super impressive during base-building. What are your upcoming racing goals?

Phoenix -- Sounds like you're making great progress! Best wishes for success on the track!

oldhamdog -- I had almost forgotten how tough hot weather can be. We had maybe three 80-degree days all summer. But near 90 today. An easy 5-miler wiped my out. Thankfully, back to 60s after Wednesday.

what a very cool selfless post...thanks man!

MF

Thanks! Need more posts like this.

On average but with nuance. The tempos range from about 3 miles at close to JD threshold paces to 7 or 7.5 miles at threshold + 15 seconds or so. I like to alternate the standard tempo one week with the longer tempo the next week. And the numbers also include some marathon pace running, which I'll throw into a longer run here and there, or progression runs.

Also if you discount races it's more like 6-8 miles a week of faster than easy running most of the time.

Allen - next focus race is 15K next month, I might do a local 5K as a tune up between now and then but I take those as a work through and just go with how I feel on that day.

A positive week on this end. The general weariness in the legs subsided even as I increased volume. Also the respite from the links proved beneficial for the minor back injury and I was able to return to working on my duffer status.

Sun: 63' jog, swim, 0.75mi walk

Mon: golf (walk9/ride9), 97

Tues: 57' jog, body wt ex

Wed: off

Thu: 52' jog, body wt ex

Fri: 2mi walk

Sat: 52' jog w/ 1mi utility pole fartlek (0.67mi 2on/2off, 0.33mi 3on/1off); golf (walk9) 43

Best to all!

Coyote Montane wrote:

A couple things, after about 40 or 41, at the advice from a former coach and very good masters runner (4:25 mile to 2:30 marathon in his early 40s), I backed off on frequent workouts at V02 max effort, rather focusing more on tempos, long runs, and fartlek where you get enough work to stimulate the faster paced systems but not so much as to impact the racing.

Jack Daniels recommends the same thing in the 2nd edition of his Running Formula. (I don't remember the page number off the top of my head.)

As for "steep decline," I am a relative newbie to the sport (started running in 2004) and have been a low mileage runner (never exceeded 70mpw). So I haven't experienced it yet at age 52. I guess it may eventually come to me.

My week.

M: swimming 1000m.

T: elliptical 20 min, stationary bike 20 min.

W: 5 miles.

R: 6 miles.

F: 7 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 12.2 miles.

I found my legs still sore on Tuesday, and decided to do an extra day of cross training instead of getting back to running. Yesterday was too hot (Heat Index over 90), so I decided not to run more than 12.2 miles. I am hoping to get back to normal training this week.

One thing I forgot to write about last week's half marathon. The OA winner was the tallest runner I have ever seen. He is not a "big" guy like Solinsky or Andrew Wheating. But at 6-10, he would dwarf both Wheating and Luke Puskedra. (A former D1 runner with a 5k PB of low 14s.)

On the subject of training and aging I have a personal observation. I can handle quite a bit of work up to a point. Then all of a sudden fatigue comes out of nowhere. Fine one moment, dead the next. In the past I may have tried to fight it, but I have learned best to back off immediately. That happened this morning. I was planning a hard track session, but during the warm-up the legs were extremely heavy. Although there was "peer pressure" to complete the session, I chose to call it a day.

Igy

In response to Smoove on the drop-off: I think part of the reason for this thread is so many of us have reductions in performance after 50. I ran in HS and College and almost all of my faster peers from that time are no longer running. We lost a few who went to VMI where the coach had the “eggs against the wall” approach (a Daniels term), where he destroyed them and whoever was left was great. The rest, quit. The rest did high mileage and I think broke themselves down. In college I ran 80 and 100 mile weeks in the summers and had PR’s of 15:42 5k and 32:12 10. I developed PF at 20 and that pretty much ended my career. I could have come back but I was just burned out. I ran sporadically every year but continued to get injured very easily. Knees, hips, PF, ankles. Was it those 100 miler weeks? I don’t know. I vaguely remember running 19 flat and something in my 30’s in the 5K but , again, I was constantly injured. At 47 I made a concerted effort and improved every year to age 50 where I “peaked” at 18:47 5K and 5:30 mile. By 51 I swear I trained harder but stopped improving. I felt pretty invulnerable those few years and even signed up for….a marathon. I never made the build-up and started breaking down. By 52 I started my current nearly constant stream of injuries. I mean, how many freakin places on your foot can you get PF? I swear its at least 10 and counting. I have little knots in multiple places on the bottoms of both feet. I think it is more than just injuries that explain the drop-off, as at 51 I should have gone faster….but I didn’t. My personal opinion is it is metabolic, specifically, hormonal. HGH, Testosterone, DHEA, Melatonin, and thyroid among others. Production drops with all of these but the rate, how, and when is pretty unpredictable….hence, the differing ages of the fall-off. Unless you cheat you cannot fix that. Whether and how many people cheat is a topic for another time…...

Although I ran recreationally from pre teen years I never raced until age 20. I trained very hard in my 20s and got down to 33 for 10 k. Marriage and parenting in my 30s and lower kms dropped me into the 35s.

I was still running low 36s off low kms in my early 40s but broke my foot.

I came back only running 39s. This form held up into my early 50s. A nasty little hiking accident set about a chain reaction of injuries since 2013. Since then I have just been battling along pretty slowly and doubt I will get back anywhere near that again.

My fitness has improved quite a bit since posting on this thread. The race times are slower than what I would have expected, but my labs and general physical well being have exceeded. Be able to hear of other struggles to maintain or fight against the aging process shows one is not alone. Prior to posting it was, "yea, it's time, you just can't do this anymore." Today I am 67, more hopeful and willing to accept the challenge. Though a bit tired, so I will stay off the legs and hit the pool.

In regards to the medical side of aging, hormone replacement therapy appears to come with a lot of unknown risks. I have always leaned toward conservative treatment for injuries and ailments first. There is a cost to the pursuit of most goals, and in the end none of us is paid for this pursuit.

Igy

4 slow painful miles cross-country at the park, untimed, maybe 10-12 minute mile pace. Back hurt, knee hurt.

I post here as a public service. Thanks to me, other people can say, "I may be old and slow, but damn, at least I can run faster and farther than Brittle Master 1958."

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

4 slow painful miles cross-country at the park, untimed, maybe 10-12 minute mile pace. Back hurt, knee hurt.

I post here as a public service. Thanks to me, other people can say, "I may be old and slow, but damn, at least I can run faster and farther than Brittle Master 1958."

Yes, but just barely. Born in the same year. Hang in there--you will have better days!

Rtype wrote:

My personal opinion is it is metabolic, specifically, hormonal. HGH, Testosterone, DHEA, Melatonin, and thyroid among others. Production drops with all of these but the rate, how, and when is pretty unpredictable….hence, the differing ages of the fall-off. Unless you cheat you cannot fix that. Whether and how many people cheat is a topic for another time…...

That's exactly what the science suggests: The primary cause of strength and muscle mass loss with the aging process is the decline of hormones. And pronounced changes with the aging process take place after 50 yrs of age. But there must be a genetic component involved to a certain extent with aging athletes as performance declines at different rates, along with injury prevelance & variation.

The roof caved in for me after age 50 (57 now) with Achilles & hamstring strains, patellar tendinitis, IT band friction syndrome and a complete rupture of the posterior tibial tendon while trying to outkick a younger runner in 5k. 😕 Many frustrating visits with sports medicine doctors and MRIs. Ironically, I had few very injuries in my 20s, 30s & 40s. And many of the guys I ran with & completed against in my younger days also developed chronic injuries in their late 40s & early 50s, some severe & chronic enough to where they've all together quit running and have taken up cycling. So, one minute you're on top of your game and the next minute you're in the trash heap (speaking figuratively of course...but you get my point).

At the other end of the spectrum there are men & women in the masters running club I belong to that seem to defy aging. They're been able to maintain consistently high-volume training year end & year out with little or no injury history. And while their performances have declined steadily through the decades, it has not been nearly as pronounced as other runners who have battled chronic injuries consequently experiencing significant downtime from running. So, obviously if you can maintain a consistent training base with little or no injury interference, your can slow down to a certain extent the age-related performance decline...nothing new there. But what influences the different prevalence & variation of injuries involving aging runners is the perplexing question since everyone should be experiencing the same basic age-related hormonal decline. 🤔

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