50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Michael Rohl wrote:

... Allen... what email are you talking about: I don't get it. Are you mocking me? If you are I am to dense to understand and wish I could; I love to mock myself :) Really are ywou mocking me :)?

Coach Rohl, that was Alan Bennett, not me, but I think he was referring to the email wording "... CURRENTLY scheduled for ..." -- implying it was subject to change! Or was your question satire? I don't know ... Hey, I grew up not too far from where you're stationed now. I was joking earlier about the poor excuse for hills I have here, but that wasn't a problem in my youth! I bet you can plan some great climbs on your bike loops. Congrats on your accomplishment, by the way.

-Allen

Not sure about the physiological benefits of my first week of 2017. I am sure of the psychological benefits though.

Monday. A nice hour hike around my local hilly forest. In the afternoon my buddy collected me and we drove to the Aussie Alps. Camped the night at the Upper Howqua River.

Tuesday. On our way at 0650. We located what was 60 years earlier a logging track now heavily overgrown. After an hour of pushing uphill through thick foliage we arrived at the base of Helicopter Spur.

The way up was via 3 vertical rock buttresses. It was a pretty intimidating climb/ scramble knowing any mistake could have dire consequences.

At 0850 we reached the top safely.

From there our path was far less intimidating.

We followed the Alpine Walking Track to the 1700 metre peak of Mt Magdala. Stunning views all the way and some enjoyable encounters with various fauna.

From Mt Magdala we descended then ascended to the summit of Mt Howitt. Another peak in the 1700 range. Great views toward Cross Cut Saw, Mt Buggery, Mt Speculation, Mt Cobbler, The Viking and The Razor. 4 years previous we had been atop Howitt after a wonderful day covering much of what we could see.

From Howitt we trotted off to McAllister Springs. This is the only nearby source of water. With the hydration packs refilled we jogged the 2 km back up to Howitt.

Our last leg was familiar territory, the same final 9 kms we ran 4 years earlier.

Across the open meadow then up the western peak before a breakneck descent down Howitt Spur initially at a 40% gradient.

The gradient eased after a km as the track descended into heavy scrub. In between jumping fallen logs we managed a good clip (5.00 km pace at times) for this 3 km section.

The last 4 km is both alongside (and inside) the Howqua River. The temperature was mid 30s C now so the river crossiings were enjoyable. The 9th crossing brought us out at our campsite at around 1430. Nearly 8 hours. Actual moving time was just over 6 hours. 30 kms covered and a total of 1700 metres of elevation gain accumulated.

Wednesday. The previous afternoon we had moved camp to King Basin near the King River.

Our plan for the day was a long awaited return to the spectacular summit of Mt Cobbler. The most distinctive mountain in the region.

We would climb via a newish track called Muesli Spur Track and then return via the steep 4 x 4 Mt Speculation Road. An estimated 22 km and 1000 metres of elevation.

We missed the trailhead initially and added a few extra kms to our day.

Once on course we got stuck in at a good effort on the steep singletrack.

About a km in the track reared up and we went from running to walking and sometimes crawling. The 5th km took 20 mins with a 250 metre elevation gain but sections were much slower and steeper.

We finished our morning muesli a couple of kms later. A brief trot on Speculation Road and then a few kms of easy singletrack before reaching some rocky cliffs.

The summit sits apart from the rest of the range and we had some steep scrambling off the cliffs and then a steep scramble up to the top.

After soaking in the views for 20 minutes we scrambled down and back up to the top of the surrounding cliffs.

A cruisy jog along the singletrack then about 8 kms of easy downhill on the dirt roads back to camp.

All up 26 kms 1030 metres elevation gained 4 hours moving time. Finished just after mid day.

Thurday. Up at 0500 for work. Tired, took the day off.

Friday, Saturday and Sunday were a mix of short runs, rides, paddles and rowing machine. Temps in the high 30s (100+F) and a weary body.

Michael Rohl wrote:

So I really do mean - good training everyone - what ever name you call it and Allen... what email are you talking about: I don't get it. Are you mocking me? If you are I am to dense to understand and wish I could; I love to mock myself :) Really are you mocking me :)?

Not mocking you. Allen1959 had it right. I was picking up on the word currently. Seriously? Was that written by a lawyer? What followed was part of an imagined conversation, after they rescheduled the event and caused you to miss it.

If anyone wants to learn more about oxygen debt, run the 3000 m at the USATF masters indoor championship in Albuquerque in a couple of weeks ;-)

Good week for me, and I would say that my hamstring is 99% and my fitness is getting close to 90%. 44 miles running and 25 on bike split between the stationary bike at the gym and my road bike on rollers at home. Also a couple of strength/plyometric sessions.

Key workouts:

Weds: 5x1000 m with 90 second recovery jog, average 3:35

Sat: 10x400 m with 50-60 second recovery, average 80 with last four 77- 79

Not quite race-ready but getting there.

Scott

Geez, wow. Take off for a long weekend and this place blows up like the Mike Rossi thread?! Kind of laughing, kind of shaking my head. But maybe Trotsky IS Mike Rossi! Wouldn't that be something?

52 on the week plus a 2 hr snowshoe hike up to 10000 ft. Workouts included 9 miles on Tuesday with 10X min hill reps, jog down for recovery. Thursday it was snowing like cray so 10 miles on the treadmill with progressive pace reps. Starting at MP and bringing down to 5K pace or under at 1 min increments (3X)

Drove to Utah over the weekend to watch some of the US National XC ski races, where my son was racing. Did 12 on Saturday with some segments at MP, to keep from getting bored. Drive back was hairy.

Allen and Allen,

Thanks - I figured i was missing something and I get it now! You guys that do that hiking - it sounds pretty awesome! I love reading about it - more interesting then "i ran 4 in 31:00"

Mike

Well, first week of the year got me in at 29.5 miles. Had our first serious cold front here in KC, and with that, about 3 inches of snow. So broke out my only pair of trail shoes, which are a pair of Newtons (I am normally in Brooks and NIKE's), and ran 4 miles in 37:17, my fastest in many months of training. That included a finishing mile of 8:46, shocking to me.

Started week two yesterday with an 11 miler in 1:49, felt "brain-tired" in the last mile, though the legs felt good. So did not do the 12th mile that I had hoped. Do want to get in more longer runs this year to prepare better for spring and fall 1/2 marathons, but want to recover enough to run the rest of the week on fresh legs, not dead-tired/beat up ones. I have decided not to aim towards a 50 km this spring, but a 1/2, some 5 km's and a track 1 mile.

2016 mileage was 1530, slightly down from the year before, but not bad and pretty consistent. My best 1/2 marathon was only 1:58, and a far cry from just a couple years before, so that is why I think my long runs need to gradually get longer (15 to 17 or so). Everyone on this thread is very polite and mature, so I hope all us will keep it so, if someone needs to be mean/rude/argumentative, it really doesn't belong here.

My wife's run yesterday, in 25 degree weather, was 6.25 miles, good for her. Her big goal is a sub-7 mile in early June. So question to coaches, when dealing with someone like her who's had fatigue issues, what are your thoughts of a build up to that? We hope to get to the track tomorrow (50 degrees?) and see where we are at. She prefers 200 to 400's mostly, but I do feel like some longer (600 to 800 to 1000) can be of use, too. She ran 7:02 last year, and 6:57 the year before.

Congrats to Mike Rohl, get well KP (no more dancing on toilets for New Year's dude!), and clean clear roads to all.

Mike L.,

My only thought is you still want to do traditional miler training just adjusted for age and recovery. For example, where 400s may have been a regular staple at 40, perhaps 350s in the 50s.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Mike L.,

My only thought is you still want to do traditional miler training just adjusted for age and recovery. For example, where 400s may have been a regular staple at 40, perhaps 350s in the 50s.

Igy

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The race isn't any shorter. Why should you train shorter?

Elvis,

Makes perfect sense to me. It is more important to accumulate time at sustained efforts, as you age the yards you cover will be less.

Igy

SCgal,

True for the distance but not the intensity. Let's say for example, I am training for 1500 meters. As a 40 year old I may have run 8 x 400 meters @ repetition pace with 200 meters easy. As a 50 year old I may adjust my workout where I run 8 x 350 meters @ repetition pace with 150 meters easy. I believe similarly a long run of 14 miles worked well for the 40 year old, while 11 miles as a 50 year old gets the same training effect; same amount of time on your legs.

Igy

Rtype wrote:

RF Reader, congrats on staying injury-free. That is a real, tangible success. It begs the question: Would we rather train as hard as possible, really pushing our limits, risking injury for the rest of the year, and have a peak performance; Or is it better to scale it back, have “moderately good” performances, and stay healthy? And, what if “moderately good” is only 5% to 7% below a “peak performance”? Is it worth it? Right now, I say, NO. Curious what others think.

after stalking this thread periodically after the demise of the 40s thread, it's with some resignation that i admit that this is where i belong. after all, although "only" 49, i turn 50 in october this year, but my achilles are well over 50...

long run of 2017 was 4 miles yesterday, and no pain. what must have been a slight achilles tear last september has made running difficult the last 4 months. a smarter man probably would have seen a doctor or something, i preferred the age-old practice of ignoring it until it goes away. maybe it's working? that said, i've started incorporating the drills that i turned my nose up towards as a youngster, and resolve to actually take a more active role in staying healthy as opposed to over-relying on the crapshoot genetic lottery that i've won up to this point...

but to answer the question above: a month ago i'd have said i'd accept "moderately good." maybe i still will. but the target has to still be "peak performance"; we may just have to accept that it may seldom happen. but a friend of mine in high school gave me the best advice this shy introvert ever received, and though it was about women, it applies: "if you go up and talk to a girl and say what you feel, she may slap you 9 out of 10 times, even 99 out of 100; but you live for the one time." and so i still live for the one time...

finally, all this debate about "oxygen debt." i can't see how anyone here doesn't feel indebted to oxygen. it's a debt i'll be repaying till my last breath...

that's my story and i'm sticking to it,

cush

SCGal,

Let me approach it this way. Suppose I have two athletes, both are training for a two mile. One has a best of around 11:00 and the other 12:15. The goal for the workout is to improving aerobic capacity, and time at max v02. I would have the first athlete run 3 x 1,000 meters @ 3:35 / 600 meter recovery jog and the second athlete 3 x 800 meters @ 3:00 / 400 meters recovery jog.

Running further but slower reduces the training effect.

Igy

Cush,

Joe Douglas believed in creating oxygen debt in his athletes. At least he did when I ran for him.

Igy

This is the Real SCgal. Someone is posting under my username. I haven't posted all day.

Racerdb wrote:

RF Reader wrote:

For 2016, I ran 2713 miles, and more importantly, stayed injury free for the entire year for the first time since 2008.

That's a pretty good year!

Dave

Thanks. I hope my injury-free streak will continue into this year.

As for Rtype's question, I would rather error on the side of caution. I think consistency is vastly underrated.

Here is my week.

M: off.

T: 7 miles.

W: 10 miles. (8th-9th miles @ 8:00-7:53)

R: 7 miles.

F: 7 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 14.5 miles (last mile @ 7:54)

I am also interested in learning about this.

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately there is a troll that has a habit of doing that. I would report the post with the stolen handle. I assume it is the same troll that has been causing mischief lately.

Igy

socal cush, welcome to participation, rather than just lurking on the thread. I hope your achilles continues to improve and you are healthy and ready to race right behind the Toads at Carlsbad this year.