50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Mon. 1 hour 5 min. paddle on the lake, 3 km run on the golf course in 15 min.Last km in 4.28.

Tue. 16.5 km. 1 h 30 m. on flat trails.

Wed. 16.5 km with 475 m of elevation gain on the McIvor Range trails in 1 h 40 m. 6 min km ave pace but a few 4.40s in there on the easier sections.

Thu. 12 km run in 1 h 8 m. Legs a bit weary so set the watch countdown to 4 min, running 3.30 and walking 30.

Fri. Rode up on the McIvor Ranges trails for 20 plus km in 1 h 36m about 400 m of elevation gain.

Sat. 2 km jog, and 500 m striding, 8km trail race in 35.40, slow 6 km jog.

Sun. 3.5 km jog, 8 km trail race in 36.00, slow 3.5 km jog.

My biggest week of running for some time. Nearly 80 kms total.

The two races were pretty average efforts on moderate trail courses, 2 years ago I would have run both in the high 32s low 33s. Plenty of work needed to get back to that sort of form.

A good week here with training. Made it to a track Thursday night for some 200’s and a 400 at what I hoped would be race pace for Saturday’s mile. Banged ‘em dead on. Nice easy run Friday morning. Woke up Saturday and just felt a bit off. Out to the track in Pasadena and had my normal warm-up, 100m strides were a bit slow though. Not to worry. First track race in 2 years was about to go….

First lap and I felt so much like a fish out of water. A little slow, but OK. Second lap was better, I was eyeballing some runners in front to gage who was coming back, who was going ahead. I picked one coming back as the second lap ended and on to the dreaded 3rd lap. I felt good at this stage and was able to real in the one runner and focus on the next. On to the bell lap and had no one to play with so charged through it and finished relatively strong. 6:20 and change so we’ll call it 6:21.

Not anywhere near where I thought I would be on time. Was thinking at least 6:00 and optimistically, 5:40 based on my training. OK, first track race in 2 years so maybe that was it. I spent the next 5 ½ hours on my drive back to Phoenix thinking about the possibilities. Conclusion – I simply ran crappy. I need to get some speed work in, really haven’t done much. Some longer runs, try to get out and away from the treadmill more. All things I need to improve upon to start nailing those times that I know I am capable of.

Nice article which included Skinnbones on the site, very nice.

Have a great week!

A good week starting a new program to somehow find a way to run every day and actually build some base. I've tried so many times to run more miles I've lost count, but hope springs eternal. 7 runs in 7 days totaling 1 hour and 38 minutes. Started at 10 minutes last Sunday and I add one minute per day. All done on rocky trail. One drawback I found to running minutes instead of miles was Friday I got stuck in a thunderstorm. Going faster won't make it end sooner. I got very wet. The first goal is to get to 30 minutes, then reassess from there. It's too early to draw any conclusions other than my knee stopped hurting; and that's a very good thing.

41 miles in 6 runs for me the past week. This is the third week after my 1/2 marathon and recovery continues, but still is not complete. I ran a semi-workout of 20x:30 faster/:30 easy on Tuesday and was so tired Wednesday that I didn't run. I ran a hard 9 miler with my kids yesterday that felt pretty good on for the first 7 and pretty fried for the last two. With XC season starting at the end of August I now am planning to try and train a mix of more speed work and a little less distance than the mostly base mileage program I was running before my 1/2M.

I'm not 50+ masters but would like any feedback from those with more experience.

Goal: sub 3:10 at St George Marathon Oct 4 (16 weeks out)

Marathon PR: 3:21 St George Marathon 2013, 3:34 Ogden Marathon last Month. 1:32 Half Marathon in April.

The poor performance at Ogden last month was from a combination of factors. Poor fueling/GI distress, lack of sleep, and MPW only going above 50 for a Month were primary factors. I also started too fast and eased up a bit after realizing I wasn't going to reach my goal. Ogden course is also tougher the St. George.

Started the Pfitzinger 18-55/70 plan 2 weeks ago. Reverse-tapered into it a bit since last Marathon was recent.

Have hit all the workouts so far with no problems

Sun: Rest/1 mile fun run

Mon: Aerobic plus 10X100 strides AM, P90X Legs and Back PM

Tue: 12 Mile Med-long run (8:00 pace/150 avg heart rate)

Wed: 4 Miles recovery

Thur: 9 Mile med-long run AM, P90X Core synergistics PM

Fri: 5 Mile recovery run

Sat: 17 Mile long run (8:00 pace/150 avg heart rate)

Total: 54

Question: How hard/when to hit the hills (particularly downhills)? The course I'm preparing for is very hilly, especially with downhills. Trying to avoid knee wear and tear. I don't feel like I get much out of running downhill other than knee pain.

How much improvement can I expect over the next 3 Months, provided I hit all Pfitzingers workouts? I'm guessing I need to cut 5-10 minutes over the marathon distance.

Easily the best week of training in more than a year...prostate shmostate!

37 miles including:

Tues. 3 mile anaerobic threshold on track 21:23 (7:16, 7:13, 6:54)

Thurs: 400, 600, 400, 600, 400 (all w/ 200 recovery)

87, 2:15, 86, 2:05, 85

Sat: brisk pace 10 mile flat dirt

LOTS of body work this week...two sessions of active isolated streching, one session of rolfing...some weights 4 times...feeling more flexible and stronger by the week...even saw 146 lbs on the scale a few mornings

Heading to Sacramento this week for USATF Nationals...4 days of track and field, telling lies, drinking beer...damn near perfect...anyone else headed that way?

...and congrats Skinnbones on yet another remarkable performance by Grant Fisher winning the Brooks Meet up in Seattle...and he is just a junior!

train don't strain,

MF

Nice work Mike F

Well after jumping in on a Nike employee mile Tuesday (5:14) I laced up for a double rust buster at 4000 ft Bend OR Sr Games yesterday. Ran as hard as I could alone for a 4:55 1500m and a 2:23 800m. Long long way to go from one year before. But all things considered I'll take it for a newly minted 54-year-old with big oval ambition for 2015.

Jwil... I followed (forever endorse) Pete's marathon training when I ran 2:36 at St George. Plus you should definitely train those quads for downhill running.

p.s. IF Bend host Sr Games again next summer we should ALL rally up to be there, rent a house, drink some beer at 10 Barrels, Crux, hang out on the West Side of town. Summit High's mondo track. Sunshine. Its awesome. Who really cares about the altitude? It would be a fantastic gathering for us old fools.

KP

I'd be interested to hear what some of my fellow 50+ runners would predict here:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5869804

KP good running! If they host national Sr. Games in Bend, I'm there. I remember doing a workout there (at the community college) some 25 years ago, and also enjoyed the brief visit last Dec for Club Nats.

I had a cut back week to get ready for this week's 10K and next week's mile (club grand prix thing, but only 5 days apart).

Ran 36:35, 1st AG and 1st masters too (a couple of our good masters moved away this year, and another ran back in the pack with his young daughter).

Opened up with 5:50 for the first three but couldn't hold that effort on mile 4 and 5. 10th time I've done this race and 10th AG win. Time for new things next year.

Had a good past week. I had a little bit of a scare last Sunday in that I felt sudden tightness/soreness in my upper left ham while clearing hurdles. This was the same location as my pull in late January and that put me out of commission for 5 weeks. I immediately stopped the workout, rested Monday and went to the chiro on Tuesday. He did some ART, said there were no knots that he could feel, and stretched me out really good. Could it have happened due to racing a couple of hard sprints on Saturday? Um, probably. So Wednesday I ran up 1,215 stairs. 27 flights of 45 stairs, walk down for rest, 2 minute rest after 14 flights. I was walking stiff-legged to my car after that one. Thursday I did 5x150 at about 85% effort (testing the ham) and it felt good. Friday I lifted, Saturday I rested, and I just finished an excellent hurdle workout. I feel like I had a breakthrough -- I was skimming over them, snapping down, and it all felt effortless. I realized that a year ago this time I couldn't walk without limping and I couldn't help smiling.

So next Sunday I race at our association championship meet and it will be my first hurdle race for this outdoor season, and I. Am. Ready.

Run well, wise old masters!

3rd 5k in the last 3 weeks yesterday 19:19. Best 5k since my comeback. Didn't think I'd see 6:13 pace again. Feeling good, things starting to come together. Things are actually too good, probably means an injury is right around the corner.

44 miles this week.

MF,

I'll be at Jr Nationals in a few weeks. Should you dare to show, I'll promise a SLOG on the Pre trail Sat or Sunday morning and all the beer you can drink Sat night. Wait, maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew......

A SLOG is a SLOWWWWW JOGGGGG. Did I mention slow?

I arrive Friday form Portland and leave Sunday night late.....send me an email if you're going. I've got new lies to tell you!

Dew points also kicked my butt this week...After the winter we had I can't believe I'm already not liking this heat...

59 miles this week...Injuries seem to be all but gone. Ran two workouts; Tuesday 'T' run went 6:00.0,5:54.2,5:49.9= 17:44.1; Thursday did a 1min-2-3-4-3-2 on/off ladder during a 10 mile run. Ons about 5:40, offs around 6:45. This was a tough day... Everything else was un-timed steady relaxed running

Thinking about racing a couple of 5K's on July 4 & 12th.

More of the same this week. Have a good one everyone!

Dave

KP,

Count me in for Bend next year...one of my 2or3 favorite towns in America...have rented house there couple of times during the break during Olympic Trials in Eugene and will do so again next Trials...great beer, great trails...and solid racing this weekend...right on.

Skinn,

Unable to make Junionr Nats...USUALLY they have been held in conjunction with the big boys/girls nationals and in fact first time I ever saw Rupp was as a high school soph in 2002 at Stanford and then Mary Cain as a frosh in like 2011 in Eugene...great opportunity to see the kids when they combine juniors and seniors...gues since WORLD juniors are in Eugene later this summer, they want to have a dress rehearsal for the kids there instead of the combo meetin Sacramento.

Will however take you up on the beers sometime soon...FYI we'll be hosting USATF National XC in San Francisco again in 2015 and you can be sure I'll have another post-meet pizza and beer bash like the one you attended last time we had XCs

yolo (you only live once),

MF

Week 159: 3 hours 12 minutes in 4 runs, all super easy. Plus some non-running stuff every day, of course. Starting to feel remarkably good, the short and easy miles are helping, so there is no hurry about ramping up just yet.

Some excellent racing going on, keep it coming.

@jwil - I have never hit my A goal in the marathon, you don't want advice from me. :-)

@jwil: I'm not a marathoner, so take this for what it's worth. I think setting long-term time goals is motivating, but I also think one should be cautious and realistic when setting shorter term goals. The main goal should be to try and get better. You can't really predict where you'll end up, but can only hope that with judicious training, you will continue to improve and be as good as you are capable of being. You can't force yourself to be something that you are not, and no amount of willing yourself to be something will make it so. The biggest concern is that you end up trying to train where you want to be, rather than where you're at, and end up injuring yourself (heaven knows I've done that more than once.)

With that said, I think that you should assess whether you've got the wheels for sub-3:10 by running some shorter races and seeing how they stack up on something like McMillan (https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ ). If they stack up favorably (and from experience, I think you might need some leeway comaring shorter times to the marathon), then following a proven plan, like Pfitzinger's, should carry you close to that goal (your HM PR time, for example, is still a bit short for a sub-3:10, but then again, I don't know by how many minutes people typically PR on the downhill St. George course, and I also don't have a sense of how you split in your marathons...do you tend to slow down badly?)

As for hills, they are your friend. Most coaches would tell you that you should do hill-intensive run at least once a week pretty much year-around. Most people rarely supersaturate themselves on hills, but I also agree that you may need to find yourself a good long 2-3% grade to learn how to become efficient running downhills.....and I wouldn't wait too long to start that....again, probably something to do weekly. I just found this in the April issue of Runner's World:

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/three-tips-for-running-downhill

Despite my cautionary tone, I wish you the best of luck on your training plan and on reaching your race day goal.

Cheers!

I was hit hard by an unplanned stoppage of training due to the dreaded "menopause". I am 54, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. It threw my entire running off for several weeks and caused me to end my season in the middle of May. I was hit by every bad symptom you can name: Injury, illness, soreness, lack of sleep, lack of desire to run. I am one big mess right now. Looks like I will resume training again in October. Hope to give everyone updates during the Fall.

Arizona Gal wrote:

I was hit hard by an unplanned stoppage of training due to the dreaded "menopause". I am 54, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. It threw my entire running off for several weeks and caused me to end my season in the middle of May. I was hit by every bad symptom you can name: Injury, illness, soreness, lack of sleep, lack of desire to run. I am one big mess right now. Looks like I will resume training again in October. Hope to give everyone updates during the Fall.

Arizona Gal, if you don't mind, would you please post updates and what you discover? I am also 54 and haven't hit menopause yet, although I am getting a few symptoms once in a while. I am really hoping to avoid menopausal "belly". So far, so good in the running department, but I am curious and clueless about what to expect. Thanks.

@lucKY2b: Great advice. It's easier to stay motivated with a solid goal on the horizon, problem is marathon goals are tough to predict. I was 20+ minutes off my last goal, which definitely raises valid concern. I do tend to slow down considerably over the last half, which is why I chose Pfitzingers plan to increase mileage.

I ran a 1/2 marathon last year 6 weeks before the 3:21 PR. I'm going to run the exact same race again for a baseline. Based on your comments, I am going to look for something a little sooner-in about 2-3 weeks.

Some marathon geek in Utah put together a race calculator similar to Mcmillan's-but specific to Utah races:

http://www.asksasha.com/predictor.php

Based on 1/2 marathon times (but not Ogden), I'm pretty close.

Good article from runners world-before the article I knew nothing about training hills.