List of 15 Track Athletes Victor Conte Gave Steroids To

Phil's conscience wrote:

Phil is the guy who thinks that THG positives are caused by taking oral contraceptives, that because Victor didn't publish in a peer-reviewed journal the anabolic profile of THG it shouldn't be banned, 'scuse me the record's stuck, 'scuse me the record's stuck, 'scuse me the record's stuck...

And despite that you still don't understand! Either that or you deliberately misrepresent what I say?

One has to wonder which of his life's disappointments caused him to throw his hat in on the dark side.

As for Marion's falliblity at Mt Sac this year .... sucks to be clean, eh?!

Hey Phil was Flo Jo clean too? Never a positive test that USATF was willing to share. Associating her with drugs is probably wrong? That whole death thing was just a freak accident?

You wrote;

Phil is the guy who thinks that THG positives are caused by taking oral contraceptives.

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I reply.

No he did not,he said that certain contraceptives are closely related to Gestrinone.Without a defintion of related compounds you should ban the contraceptive uses if you ban THG.

Unless the criteria for banning is that they are anabolic.This they cant or wont prove.

WADA have a definition of related compounds but say the athlete does not need to know.

If you cant understand this ;please ask.

Got that right.

I'm not really suprised with anyone on this list. The only one that I'm disappointed to see on the list is Jones. It's sad enough to discredit her amazing 2000 performances but atheltics aside, what effect can those drugs have on her pregnancy last year?

Although one positive note, it doesn't appear that any of the people on the list were on USA's Men's 4x100m or Women's 4x400m team at Paris. Of course, that mean syou have to throw out the women's 4x100m and Men's 4x400m -- whihc is unfortunate because there were clean athletes on those teams.

What about athletes in other sports? Is there going to be another list following with Bonds and Romanowski on it?

I'm not surprised by this. I only hope that these jerks are negatively impacted by the whole situation. Of course, they won't be. The Olympics will arrive and Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery will be paraded around like heros.

All of these sorry asses will have some sort of sob story proclaiming how innocent they are. I still remember Kelli White sitting there crying behind a microphone talking about this family medical condition or some sort of bullshit. Nice one.

Do these people have talent? Sure. Steroids aren't going to make your average Joe an Olympian. But just because someone would be fast anyways doesn't make steriods wrong. And if they are SO naturally talented, "enhancing" their performances shouldn't be necessary.

Lets Play baseball, and Lets NFL have those other lists you are looking for. I'm Glad wejo has the good sense to post the link. Look at the "Track and Field News site" the editor is already posting excuses on behalf of Jones and

Husband #2 .

So are we to assume that Jason Giambi and Kevin Toth are using oral contraceptives?

This is currently the #4 story under Google sports news, with 498 links. Many of them recycle the same quotes.

What I find interesting is that everyone quoted in these stories says if Marion & Monty get busted that it would be very bad for the sport. No one said that "cleaning house" might make the sport have a better image. This may or may not be a valid viewpoint, but when the universal response is basically "Positive tests bad!" then it's really easy to figure out how we got into a mess in the first place.

Drug testers will never be able to keep up with drug users. This has been and will always be true. Long-term health problems and haunted consciences are the the only consequences that will ever really catch up to those who are using performance "enhancing" drug users.

The best thing we can do is nothing. Let the natural consequences take their courses. Whenever I am tempted to get angry at those who are using so-called performance enhancing drugs, I think, "If these drugs were readily available and legal, would I use them?" My answer is always, "No." The more I think about it, the less the drug users mean to me. My 31 minute 10k pr is worth no more or less to me because some athletes use drugs to get faster.

Further ranting:

1. Most substances that claim to be performance enhancing are not. If they do work, they don't work (equally) for all people .

2. Many of us use substances we wouldn't perform well without (I can't race nearly as well without my 4 shots of espresso. Others need their inhalers, their anti-depressants, their Sudafed, their allergy medication, their anti-biotics.) All of these substances make their users better than they'd be otherwise. We've drawn an imaginary line in the sand to differentiate "bad" performance enhancing drugs from "good" performance enhancing drugs. "Clean" performance is a relative term. Everytime I fire up more stove-top espresso pot, my wife tells me that I'm only cheating myself.

3. What drives drug cheats? In order: money, dollars, cash, money, ummm........fame............ world bests/performance. They are "income-enhancing" drugs. If you really want to get rid of drugs in sport, seek to rid the world of professional athletics. If Marion Jones has no Nike sponsorship to aspire to, no European Grand Prix, she has no motivation to visit Balco's Syringe Shop. As long as athletics means money, it will also mean drugs. Sports should be about (among other things), diversion from work---they should not replace work for anybody. It would be more possible to get rid of professionalism than it would be to create accurate, reliable, fool-proof, up-to-date, comprehensive drug tests. At best, both are equally impossible.

4. Why do we care whether others are using drugs to make them bigger, faster, stronger? Does it make you feel bad when people lie? Is it the realization that no human being is infallible (even your hero)?

5. Can't we get back to debating whether Filbert Bayi or John Walker was the better 1500 meter runner in 1975? You know, something important.

THG is for me wrote:

5. Can't we get back to debating whether Filbert Bayi or John Walker was the better 1500 meter runner in 1975? You know, something important.

John Walker was better. Much Better :-)

You wrote;

So are we to assume that Jason Giambi and Kevin Toth are using oral contraceptives?

............................................................

I reply;;

You still have not grasped the point.No one is saying that anyone within the THG group, male or female, has taken a contraceptive pill.

Some unbanned drugs are as related to Gestrinone as THG is.The only way round this is for the criteria to say anabolic and to prove THG is anabolic.

HOWEVER ,as a side point .... as Catlin has not published his methodology it is possible that one or more of the positives could be due to a contraceptive.Though ,to repeat,this is a seperate point to the related compound one.

I hope that you now understand.

You wrote

Long-term health problems and haunted consciences are the the only consequences that will ever really catch up to those who are using performance "enhancing" drug users.

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I know scores of users.The problem with the classical view is that they are in better health than the man in the street by a lot and the only regrets they have is that they took too little too late.

Also money had xxxx all to do with use.

Also be careful about your use of enhancers,they are allowed.

It is a social constuction that terms some ,at this moment in time, as illegal.

I see some fairly long lasting effects to Flo Jo. For example DEATH,

Flojo knew the risks and paid the ultimate price. Those 15 on the list will pay in some way, how about Marion Jones and her bastard child. What about the kids health?

You wrote,

I see some fairly long lasting effects to Flo Jo. For example DEATH,

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Same old stupid comment.Nowt to do with sports drugs.

Arnold--Are you clean?

Kids health????

The first generation of drug users have bred a load of kids that have outperformed their peers.This is nothing to do with drugs,just parents where high achievers.

Non of the medicl refs say anything about probs with kids.

Can you think originally and not repeat the same crap.