You write like an idiot.
You write like an idiot.
I think it's an insult to idiots to say that.
take a look at this list wrote:
...? No. Where do you see a comparison to Snell, Keino, et al? Take off your agenda glasses. I was saying that he led the entire race against a strong field that will likely be elite professionals soon. That's it.
I saw it, because after a list of the people Ryun had beaten was posted, you posted a list of the people German had beaten. That smacks of direct comparison any way you wish to slice it. Even though it wasn't explicit things like context and subtext made it clear.
In the case of agenda glasses, I have publicly cast my lot with neither party, but you're right to assume I pick Ryun. My agenda was to evaluate your comparison of competitors beaten in a championship mile.
Garret Heath, while faster in (I assume) every event than I will ever be, couldn't even be relied on to win his conference. He would have been the slow leg on Oregon's 4xmile! Even if you weren't meaning to compare him to Keino, let's not toot German's horn on Heath's behalf.
I think everyone on here has this in the back of their minds. German and Smith are taking things slow. Health, survival and no injury. Got a feeling they have examined what keeps him healthy and what has worked for him etc etc. Maybe they are even experimenting with what keeps him uninjured and recovered and solid nutritional advantages that work for German. This could be their only priority say for a season! I don't know I just hope he achieves each goal they are after. Take care German and good luck!
malmo wrote:
007run wrote:As great as Jim and Alan were in HS, I don't think either of them could what German did at that state meet with only two hours of rest. Just something to think about.There is nothing remotely the same between Fernandez's Cal State and Ryun's Kansas State runs.
Fernandez 4:00.29 1600 = 4:01.69 mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0JT25tyjfQRyun 3:58.3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQMlhR9r_w
Malmo, I wasn't comparing the individual runs. I know German ran about 4:01 or so. What I am saying is that I doubt Jim Ryun could run a 4:01 mile and then come back two hours later and run an 8:36 2 mile. That's what makes German great. He did pull off the greatest double in HS history and it was in HS only race situation and not in pro race. Jim is great. But I just don't think he could have pulled off the double German did that day with no rabbits or help... not for two races at least. German essentially ran both by himself. Alan Webb I'm pretty certain could not either. Hope you get what I'm saying.
007run. I get what you are saying, and I have no doubt that Ryun 'cudda' done that double that Fernandez did in high school. But doubles in hs school meets don't make Fernandez any better than he ran.
Fernandez was a great hs school runner, and had a great frehman year, but compared to Ryun, Ryun was in the major leagues, Fernandez is still sitting behind the dugout seeking autographs.
Ryun was the real deal. So is Fernandez, but a couple of steps below. Up to this point in his career he doesn't even match up to Tom Byers at the same point in his career.
malmo wrote:
007run. I get what you are saying, and I have no doubt that Ryun 'cudda' done that double that Fernandez did in high school. But doubles in hs school meets don't make Fernandez any better than he ran.
Fernandez was a great hs school runner, and had a great frehman year, but compared to Ryun, Ryun was in the major leagues, Fernandez is still sitting behind the dugout seeking autographs.
Ryun was the real deal. So is Fernandez, but a couple of steps below. Up to this point in his career he doesn't even match up to Tom Byers at the same point in his career.
Ryun and Fernandez are two totally different runners. The 1500 / mile is at the very bottom of Fernandez's range, and I would arguably say that he gets better the further he goes. Even now, while he's still working on speed, I'd say his best event is either the 3000 or the 5000. He is just so aerobically strong he can win the NCAA 1500.
Did Ryun ever run 13:25 for 5K? Or run near German's 3000m or 2-mile times (honestly don't know on that one).
I would say Ryun was more talented than Webb--the guy holds five of the six fastest mile times in HS and did it without world class competition some of the time. However, I don't think you can really compare Fernandez or say he is a few steps below. He is clearly better than Ryun ever was at the 5000 and probably the 3000 as well.
ryun ran 8:25 2M at 19 (very close to the wr at the time).
that's comparable to german's 7:47i 3k at 18.
jjjjjjjj wrote:
ryun ran 8:25 2M at 19 (very close to the wr at the time).
that's comparable to german's 7:47i 3k at 18.
In the process Ryun routed the WR holder in the 3000 (Kip Keino 7:39) over the final 150m , something that Fernandez has not done, and is not capable of doing.
malmo wrote:
In the process Ryun routed the WR holder in the 3000 (Kip Keino 7:39) over the final 150m , something that Fernandez has not done, and is not capable of doing.
I will accept the cinder track arguments, but I won't accept the Jim Ryun-held-the-WR arguments. There just weren't as many East African runners in the 60s. Period. You really think if El G
malmo wrote:
In the process Ryun routed the WR holder in the 3000 (Kip Keino 7:39) over the final 150m , something that Fernandez has not done, and is not capable of doing.
I will accept the cinder track arguments, but I won't accept the Jim Ryun-held-the-WR arguments. There just weren't as many East African runners in the 60s. Period. You really think if El G was running back in the 60s Ryun would've routed him? Please.
gray area wrote:
make me laugh wrote:Girls run faster than that.
Girls run faster than that too.
not 16 year old girls after taking it out in 6:15. and girls dont run 3:55. so go away troll. I don't understand why people feel so much animosity towards him.
Girls go sub-4, which is closer to 3:55 than 3:55 is the AR or the WR. One had to bash GF just to bring his groupies into check.
Hey, I am a big fan of German Fernandez. But this whole thread is just silly. There is just no comparison between Fernandez, who was a HS Phenom and Ryan who was racing (and beating) the best in the world while in HS or right out of HS.
This does not in any way disrespect Fernandez who is a great talent. But Ryan was simply out of this world at that age. Comparing any of the recent HS phenoms to Ryan is just silly and does a great disservice to all involved.
Enjoy German's achievements for what they are. Wish him the best in the future. And just stop making comparisons to the unattainable.
What the heck wrote:
Hey, I am a big fan of German Fernandez. But this whole thread is just silly. There is just no comparison between Fernandez, who was a HS Phenom and Ryan who was racing (and beating) the best in the world while in HS or right out of HS.
This does not in any way disrespect Fernandez who is a great talent. But Ryan was simply out of this world at that age. Comparing any of the recent HS phenoms to Ryan is just silly and does a great disservice to all involved.
Enjoy German's achievements for what they are. Wish him the best in the future. And just stop making comparisons to the unattainable.
Didn't Lindgren make the Olympics in high school as well?
Different times back then, period.
Im getting tired of "old timers" never allowing their childhood heroes be surpassed, and "Youngsters" Hyping up everything in disregard to the past.
Chill out people. you're both wrong
this is the way i see it, GF is waaaaay more talented because he can only get in a few months of training and then runs fast and falls apart. whereas jim ryun was able to put in 3 solid years in high school of hard work, that most people would burn out or sucome to injury.
ryuns talent was the ability to run fast and hard and not get injured, GF's talent is pure raw running fast regardless of training. GF reminds me of ritz...try to train hard to improve and wham injured, so you leave so many "what ifs"
ryun and lindgren were good runners but there main talent was the ability to train super hard day in and day out without getting injured....ritz cross trained for 3 months and aqua jogged and came out and won NCAA cross against Hall, thats talent, GF does base training and crushes a 3:56. it must be a headache to coach guys like GF and ritz. you know how much talent they have but you cant push them or they fall apart. where ryun or lindgren you can tell them to do 40*400's in 60 or 250 miles a week and they do it like souless drones.....i think i would like to coach GF over ryun though, just cause if you could find a way to get him world class without hurting him would be exciting
You are right about the two, but remember this. You can't really compare Ryun to Fernandez because different times and era's for the two. It is the same as trying to compare Babe Ruth to todays stars. Ruth competed in a time when MLB wasn't a world sport, hell it wasn't even a real american sport, since they didn't allow blacks to participate. Ryun ran in a time when the African countries didn't field the runners that they do now. So Ryun should be credited with running with the worlds best in his day, but it is in no means nearly as strong as it is in todays world of running. The times are pretty fast, but you only had 1 or 3 guys on that level, where as today you may have 20-30 guys in that range. They are both great yong runners and hopefully GF can stay injury free. We all know that injuries are what killed Ryun's career as well.
Since I keep my Jim Ryun book on my computer desk I can quote workouts that Ryun did. From page 72 and 73.
Late August 1964, learning how to sprint at the end of a race, (no times given)" fast 1320(880 jog recovery) 2x 660 (allowing 4 minutes for each), 880 recovery jog. 4 x 330 (3 minutes for each, meaning run and rest). 880 recovery jog. Sprinted 6 x 100 yards (2 minutes for each). 8 x 60 yards (1 minute for each). Timmons then opened up the gate and Ryun ran 4 x 230 yard up a 25 degree angle hill".
Another work out was 20 x 440 ave of 62.5.
These workouts were done when he was 17 and was preparing for the Olympic trials.
That's some intense stuff for a 17-year old.
The winner of the AAU was a New Zealander and 1972 Olympic Bronze medalist named Rod Dixon. Dixon was #3 ranked in the world at 1500m in 72 and 73, and fresh off a 3:33 at the Commonwealth Games in February. It didn't bother the Ohio State freshman, as Byers took it to Dixon from 700meters on with Dixon getting the win in 3:37.5 to 3:37.9. Byers getting the National Championship.
Byers also won the Junior Nationals in both the 1500 and 800.
Byers ran BOTH the USA Junior and Senior dual meet tours and improved his best 1500 to 3:37.5, putting him #2, #3, and #8 on the all-time US Junior list 37 years later.
3:36.1 Jim Ryun (Kansas) 07/17/66
3:37.5 Tom Byers (Ohio St) 07/24/74
3:37.9 ——Byers 06/22/74
3:38.26 Alan Webb (Virginia HS) 05/27/01
3:38.50 ——Webb 06/23/01
3:39.00 German Fernandez (Oklahoma St) 06/13/09
3:39.0 ——Ryun (Kansas HS) 06/28/64
3:39.3 ——Ryun 06/04/66
3:39.8 ——Byers 06/28/74
3:40.49 John Trautmann (Georgetown)
Tom Byers at the 1974 AAU 1500m. 3:37.5 as a freshman.
German Fernandez doesn't look like he's going to be winning the Big-12 anything for awhile.