Is it possible to be in base phase too long?

marke wrote:

Hi all,

I've gotten so many great answers to questions in the past on issues of interest and now I have another question. Is it possible to stay in base phase too long? I know Lydiard talks about being in base building for a set amount of time, JK says the body works well in six month cycles and I think Daniels had something similar. I ask if it's possible to be in base phase building up weekly mileage slowly and steadily?

Thanks in advance.

What are your goals and how fast are you?

I don't think it can hurt you, but after a certain point it stops helping.

If your goal is to just run more miles, you can stay in base phase the rest of your life.

If you want to run faster miles, than base phase just lays a bigger foundation allowing you to do a higher volume of specific training.

It's somewhat hard to describe. If you are in a base phase yet racing every week, is it still a base phase? Nothing bumps VO2 like races.

Would adding a few workouts geared at specific races or progress as mileage stabilizes still be a base phase.

Common sense without gettting hung up on terminology while erroring on the side of slow progression to less awerobic training is the way to go.

that other marke above is not me.

I am slow by letsrun standards after taking a decade off after high school.

I ran an average of about 35 mpw last year but had a high of 65 and missed a lot of time being sick. Last year I followed a lydiard type schedule and got my mile time down to like 5:10 and my 5k time was very bad at 20 min and out of whack with my mile time.

I am shooting for good times and improvements in both and figured a long time at high mileage would help. If not I'll start something else.

I am following the Daniels plan now.

Don't let the calendar determine how good you can be. If you can truly stay in base phase for 6 months, do it. If you can stay in base phase for 10 months, do it. Stay there as long as you can. But base phase doesn't mean "run slow only". You should run by feel, for very long distances. You should also do fundamental strength building exercises, light plyo-ish work outs, and good strides/200s to keep in touch with your speed muscles/system. Not "200 workouts" or anything, just get the legs moving fast every few days. Nothing taxing to the anaerobic system though.

By doing the above for more than your standard "2-3 months base phase", you'll begin to notice results from maintaining the huge weekly/daily volume. Your body will begin to use oxygen more efficiently and you'll be running noticeably faster while exerting the same effort (without introducing any formal workouts). You'll truly be raising your potential ability by building up the fundamental strengths needed to be a better distance runner. You'll end up touching the threshold range on some runs so you don't go insane, but you'll get to the true threshold workouts in the next phase, so don't go overboard.

Then hit that threshold phase for 3 or 4 months. On top of your incredible strength you've now built up, you'll be able to handle long threshold workouts, which will be faster than ever before because of the fundamental advancements you made in your long base phase.

Then, you finally introduce real speed workouts for the last couple months. This really just brings out the racing potential in your new, fundamentally-improved body.

(.....Or, forget all this and just do the standard 6-8 week base phase, then do tempos for 6 weeks, then hammer 400s and 800s while racing each week. Be prepared for similar results to the previous year, maybe shaving off a little time here or there, before the 6-8 weeks of "hard speed work on too-little base" takes its toll and your performances begin to fade. Then repeat over and over until you retire.)

This is really stupid advice. There was a reason Lydiard and others had a time limit to every phase. Each new phase should build on the previous ones. If you stay too long in any single phase you will start to lose what you gained in the previous ones. Every now and then this silly idea pops up on LR that you somehow should gain from doing super long base phases. Truth is that you will be better off with a more balanced schedule where every training element is present year round - you just shift the emphasis.

True, but it is also true that Lydiard himself contributed to this myth with his talk about how 'anaerobic training' set a limit on 'aerobic development' and that the longer the base phase the better, which is of course nonsense.

OK buddy. Hey, go do that 8 week base phase- it'll definitely get you where you want to go. "It's only base", right? This season, you're gonna make your big improvements from running your workouts even harder, right? Heck yeah! Or maybe adding some morning runs? Yeah, that'll do the trick.

To directly address your post now- You basically say the advice is stupid, then agree with me by saying "Each new phase should build on the previous ones." Base is the first phase of the cycle. It's really quite simple: Don't you want to allow your body to absorb as much as it can - and truly improve your aerobic capacity...thereby being able to run faster aerobically - before moving to the next phase? By extending your base phase - and doing it right (not just loping around) - you're essentially increasing your starting point for the next phase.

Problem is, for 99.9% of people, the calendar determines how long their base phase is.

"This is really stupid advice. There was a reason Lydiard and others had a time limit to every phase. Each new phase should build on the previous ones. If you stay too long in any single phase you will start to lose what you gained in the previous ones. Every now and then this silly idea pops up on LR that you somehow should gain from doing super long base phases. Truth is that you will be better off with a more balanced schedule where every training element is present year round - you just shift the emphasis."