Is college no longer a worthwhile investment?

I think you need to think longer term. Unless you build up an outstanding nest egg, it's possible you'll be working until close to 70 years of age (if not longer?) However, I was in your shoes about 10 years ago and seriously doubted the benefits of doing into debt right out of school.

Despite trying my hardest to not do any work in college, I actually ended up acquiring a lot of skills, learning a lot, and getting a good education. You may end up working until you are 70 or 80 (or maybe shorter depending on how technology progresses). Right now, worry about having fun and meeting people. Don't fret about start a career until you're 30. If you want to take a few years off, that would be fine too.

What will you do it you quit?

First, college is not for everyone. I have young kids and am thinking about this a lot these days. It might be better to have them take a year or two before diving into college. Or they might be better off going to a vo-tech school.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/05/education

Here is an interesting take. Follow some of the links. I did see an article on alternatives to college, but I cannot find it now.

It depends on what you want to do. Want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or other professional? A college degree is completely necessary.

Really, you get out of college what you put into it. You can go into debt as long as you make your time at school worthwhile. Study, network, and use you time there to better yourself. I graduated with what many would call a worthless degree, but I made sure from day one that I made connections that would benefit me down the road. I had a job lined up before I graduated, unlike most of my peers.

Talking averages, you're more likely to have higher lifetime earnings as a college graduate. Sure, you may be able to find work now as a plumber's helper, but unless you're the next Bill Gates, getting that sheepskin will only benefit you.

Congratulations on having the maturity to show some concern for the non-trivial generosity of your parent's funding of your education. As long as you don't waste their money now, it'll likely still be there for you in the future. If your motivation is dried up, perhaps a few years off from school competing in the non-skilled labor market against the wave of illegal Mexicans will restore your lost drive. Unless your sights are set extremely low (not owning a house, not owning a new car, not being able to adequately support a family...), you'll quickly learn that $12/hour isn't going to cut it and an education is the surest way to increase the odds of you being able to have any kind of financial success in life.

Mantis Toboggan wrote:

Congratulations on having the maturity to show some concern for the non-trivial generosity of your parent's funding of your education. As long as you don't waste their money now, it'll likely still be there for you in the future. If your motivation is dried up, perhaps a few years off from school competing in the non-skilled labor market against the wave of illegal Mexicans will restore your lost drive. Unless your sights are set extremely low (not owning a house, not owning a new car, not being able to adequately support a family...), you'll quickly learn that $12/hour isn't going to cut it and an education is the surest way to increase the odds of you being able to have any kind of financial success in life.

I started college with the ambition of going to med school, but abandoned that when I realized I don't have the academic talent to get higher than a B average if taking hard classes. I work my ass off and top out at getting Bs in almost everything...... Bs in chem, Bs in math, Bs physics. Not good enough. I have taken accounting and computer science courses to explore other areas, and after getting Bs in those courses, still haven't found anything else that I'm wild about. I have no interest in getting a useless degree in the humanities or social sciences. I just don't see anything that works. I have enough respect for my parents' money not to waste it on something that I don't think is worth it, even if they think it is. And I don't buy this crap about getting stuck at $12/hr for life if you don't have a degree. Elitists make that stuff up to piss on anyone who doesn't go to college.

So what's your plan? Drop out of school? Do you have any interests, or a "non college" career path you'd like to follow. Can you support yourself, or are you going to live with your parents while you find yourself?

This is an anecdote, but it may help. One of my best friends from high school loved to work on cars. He was very bright, but decided to be a mechanic at a dealer rather than go to school. Because he's bright and a hard worker and good at what he does, he ended up opening his own repair shop that specializes in high end luxury cars. He took a few business courses at a local juco, but that's it. However, 95% of the guys he worked with at the dealer and those he now employs will earn $15-20 per hour for the rest of their lives.

He's an outlier. If you're an outlier, then by all means quit school. But you sound pretty average (nothing wrong with that), and when you talk averages, getting a BA or BS will lead to a higher earning potential down the road.

You are the wrong person to start this thread since it is not your money.

Your parents have invested in you and see college as a way of giving you more opportunities.

It kind of sounds you are trying to use a money argument as a reason to drop out.

This question is for your parents ot ask not for you to ask.

piledriver to the face wrote:

He's an outlier. If you're an outlier, then by all means quit school.

Point taken, but the reality of it is that it's hard to tell whether you're an "outlier" without dropping out first. And by definition, he's probably not. I think the more relevant question is whether or not you're willing to take the risk to give it a go. Unfortunately, the ability to take a risk is not the same as the ability to be successful.

As a parent: my kid could take that $250k and invest it pretty smartly, either in a business or franchise or simply in a stock portfolio... and then go to trade school.

Stay in school, get a degree in a couple of years OR drop out and work for a couple of years. The difference in a couple of years: in one case you will be 22 with a degree and in the other you will be 22 without a degree. If I am interviewing you, I like the guy with the degree -- he's a finisher.

There is a huge bubble of Baby Boomers hanging on to their jobs right now. They would have retired, but their retirement funds were downsized during the economic events a few years ago. Time is on your side; they will have to retire eventually. The jobs may not look the same, but there will be jobs.

Finally, realize that most people change careers a few times in their working lives. The job that fulfills your needs may not even exist now. Get a good education and be ready when it comes down the pike.

I don't have any specific career ambition other than to find something that I can do successfully. All I know is that I want to work and be financially independent. I could work at COSTCO during the day and deliver newspapers in the morning. I appreciate my parents' generosity, but hate being financially dependent on them.

OP- I'm in a similar boat to you in terms of academics, preferences, and ideas. Most of my friends, however, are 2-3 years older than I am and are settling into their post-collegiate careers. Like me, most of them are "average guys," ie, none of them are 4.0 Ivy Leaguers who wanted to be i-bankers, lawyers, or doctors from age 6 on and never questioned that ambition or deviated from their ultimate goals. Like us, they're 3.0 + or - a tenth or two, took a decent variety of classes, never excelled, never found something they were "wild" about. Here's what they've told me:

-for people like us, a BA or a BS is nothing more than an aid to get that first job. None of them are doing anything with the degrees they earned, but all of them were specifically told the jobs they applied to were for "college graduates only."

-Forget all the crap about finding something you've got some seething passion to do. Some people are lucky to find that, and that's great. However, if you find a job with acceptable pay and you don't hate it, take it. If something better comes along, awesome! But the fact of the matter is that if you're young, don't have much debt, and don't mind living with roommates, your mid-20s aren't a very expensive time. If you're making 30k/yr in an "average" city (by which I mean not crazy expensive like NYC or LA, etc, nor crazy cheap where low COL means low salaries) in a job you feel reasonably neutral about, you're doing fine.

Lastly, regarding "useless" social science/humanities degrees, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them. For many jobs, simply having ANY degree is enough education for the purposes of qualification. Engineers love to sneer at supposedly unemployable Sociology majors (I have a few engineer friends and they love to tease, but it's mostly good-natured) but here's the deal: if the vast majority of humanities/social science majors could not be employed, there wouldn't be so many of them studying those subjects!

This is only anecdotal, but, again, my best friends were French, Psych, and Poli Sci majors. The French major got a job doing sales (they specified they wanted a "bilingual, college-educated" applicant, despite the job requiring, thus far, no French nor any college-level work). He does his 40 hours a week, does a lot of cold-calling, makes decent money, and is happy enough with the job, though when he can get work doing something a little less commission-based, he will. The Pysch major works at an after-school daycare type place that, again, specified they wanted at least "some college" for the position in question. It's a private place, so the hourly wage is solid, but there are no benefits. However, she likes working with kids and will probably get certified to teach K-8 at the local community college. Lastly, the Poli Sci major works in the finance dept of an e-commerce company. He started doing real bitch work like dealing with credit card disputes, but after a year, he proved himself reasonably competent and now gets more interesting work. He had some economics classes in college, but that was the extent of his financial training. Again, he's not really using anything he learned in college, but his worthless degree got him his foot in the door.

Too long; did not read:

Even a "worthless" degree will give you an advantage over someone with equal experience and no degree in your first job. After your first job, the degree won't mean crap. Yes, it's kind of bullshit, but no, you should not try to buck the system. Get a degree, get your first job, and do well at that first job so you can move into something better should the opportunity arise. Best of luck to you.

disillusionment wrote:

And I don't buy this crap about getting stuck at $12/hr for life if you don't have a degree. Elitists make that stuff up to piss on anyone who doesn't go to college.

So you're going to throw away the money your parents have spent on your education so far?

On average you are far better off with a degree:

disillusionment wrote:

I appreciate my parents' generosity, but hate being financially dependent on them.

Are you saying you would rather pay for college if you could but then would have to consider its value?

Your parents made a decision that they were going to bring you into this world, feed you, change your diapers, clothe you and educate you through college.

That's not financial dependence, that's parents raising their child.

You don't have to pay it back.

You pay it forward.

similar guy to the op is exactly correct.

Even if you 'just' get a degree in French Lit it will open a door or two that normally would be shut tight. It says you can FINISH OUT a long-term goal. Just having that degree says something about your character. I never made more than B's and a few A's here and there but I perservered with an EE degree and make well over 200K / year now (25 years out of college). Right after HS I remember being THAT close to, instead of trying college, enlisting in the Marines. I think I made the right choice. GET A DEGREE.

One way to find out: quit school and try to find a job.

I'm not necessarily sure that the gap in wages between college grads and high school grads is necessarily because of the doors that are being opened by having a degree (although that helps). I think that it has more to do with ambition. College grads tend to be more ambitious on average. For example, I worked for a student painting company for a couple of Summers while I was in school and for a while after I graduated. As far as skills go, it takes next to no education and the technique can be mastered in a month or two (less if you're not picky). It was shocking to see what the managers of the companies were charging for jobs. In my area, a full exterior, that might take me and a partner 4 days (30 hrs each) to do, could cost as much as $5000. Supply costs might run a couple hundred dollars on a job like that, so the manager is making huge bucks, especially if they have several crews working at the same time. Even as a lowly painter, who was only doing the job to kill time, I was making $20/hr after a month. I know one female manager who painted hotels in the mountains who made 100k, pretty much over just one Summer. If you were to manage your own company in the trades, it isn't difficult to work for less than half the year and then spend a few months traveling. If you want to have kids in the future, it's very easy to support a family on the money you can make. I'm seriously considering getting into flipping houses, when I have a little more money, because the independence and sense of satisfaction can be very rewarding.

I'm not saying that you would want to be a painter for the rest of your life. I didn't. But the trades are ridiculously over-payed compared to other jobs that require a similar education. There's also something to be said for the sense of satisfaction that you get from actually "creating" something with your effort. There are a lot of middle men paper pushers at offices who are very out of touch with the product that they produce. A lot of office jobs for larger companies are also becoming similar to assembly line work these days, as all of the thought and creativity that used to go into working is sucked away in the name of efficiency. Many of these jobs may also go over-shore as Third World countries continue to develop and are willing to work for cheap.

Lastly, universities have become degree-mills where almost nobody is ever failed and, thus, a degree won't get you as far as it used to. Now, a Masters degree is about the equivalent of what a Bachelors was 10-20 years ago. You need a degree plus connections to get your first "good" job.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/415/8964/Motorcycle-Article/Shop-Class-as-Soulcraft-Book-Review.aspx

This book's written by a guy who did a Bachelors in physics and PhD in philosophy, but ended up choosing to start up his own motorcycle repair shop. I would recommend taking a look if you are feeling disillusioned with the college scene.

I should qualify all of the above with the fact that I finished my degree and don't regret for a moment the time that I spent in university, as they were the best years of my life. I also payed my own tuition, although it was only about $4500/year, as it was in Canada. I don't consider it a waste of money, as I learned a lot (even though I wasn't really trying) and getting to compete in track and cross country for the school was icing on the cake.

I have a masters degree in a biomedial science field and 20 years experience. I work in research in the medical school of a large university.

The custodian who cleans my office makes more than me (3 years experience). The custodians who clean the school where I coach, make more than I do in my full-time job.

I'm a litle more skeptical every day about the value of higher education.