There you go.
There you go.
Is this something about the UW lacrosse team's homoeroticism again?
Elitism is fun!
Where does the money come from? It is not so simple.
outside interpretation wrote:
Is this something about the UW lacrosse team's homoeroticism again?
lacrosse players are always acting a little strange.
Hey original poster, this bill was created before Walker was in office. It is a holdover from Doyle who was the one who really f***ed us. That moron couldn't find his asshole if you rubbed his face in it let alone run a state. Give Walker some time before we throw him under the bus. Wisconsin is the guinea pig of the country right now, just let this play out for a year before we see how bad Walker and his staff really is. If this bill really backfires, then democrates will be the hige winners in the next major elections. Just my take and I have to deal with this mess every day. Its either the lazy state employees who take a pay cut or its the rest of the state that takes a pay cut. No one wins.
Screw Doyle wrote:
democrates will be the hige winners in the next major elections.
Alas, poor Democrates, I knew him well. We warned him of the dangers of the Higes of March.
I think the main people itaffects are teachers. Teachers pay almost nothing towards a retirement fee. They retire at 55 in wisco and receive 80% of their paycheck for the rest of their life and get 100% healthcare coverage. Seems like a bad way to spend tax money to me.
I wonder what the protests were like when the teachers realized the only thing the unions were protecting were their dues...
And also - WI is not the guinea pig - this same thing just happened in New Jersey. But the people eventually got sick of the teacher's dramatic public antics and supported Gov. Christie. Hoping that same thing happens here. I have nothing but respect for teachers but if I was in a position where my union wasn't helping me get higher wages that reflected inflation, I wouldn't be working too hard to protect that union.
not the guinea pig wrote:
I wonder what the protests were like when the teachers realized the only thing the unions were protecting were their dues...
And also - WI is not the guinea pig - this same thing just happened in New Jersey. But the people eventually got sick of the teacher's dramatic public antics and supported Gov. Christie. Hoping that same thing happens here. I have nothing but respect for teachers but if I was in a position where my union wasn't helping me get higher wages that reflected inflation, I wouldn't be working too hard to protect that union.
That is a far from accurate assessment of what's happening in NJ.
I'm from Wisconsin and am working in the private sector. We have taken consessions in pay and benefits for many years now and have down sized several times (which gives me more responsibilities with less pay) but the public sector has not. I'm tired of funding the public sector since they have not made the same tough choices that we have in the private sector. Now is the time to get real.
This has nothing to do with college degrees (I could argue that the folks with college degrees got us into this pickle), it's more about weather folks have a backbone to make tough decisions or not and be willing to share the pain.
Get Real wrote:
I'm from Wisconsin and am working in the private sector. We have taken consessions in pay and benefits for many years now and have down sized several times (which gives me more responsibilities with less pay) but the public sector has not. I'm tired of funding the public sector since they have not made the same tough choices that we have in the private sector. Now is the time to get real.
This has nothing to do with college degrees (I could argue that the folks with college degrees got us into this pickle), it's more about weather folks have a backbone to make tough decisions or not and be willing to share the pain.
So when the economy recovers and those private sector workers who made the big concessions are way up again, are you going to allow public sector salaries to increase in kind?
You need to understand that majority of private sector salary increases are based on one's personal performance, company results, and job market supply and demand. Why should it be different for the public sector? Let's not do the "free lunch" thing anymore.
Fragpole wrote:
Where does the money come from? It is not so simple.
.
Same place it went. Into the pockets of the uber rich
from what i know its not bad wrote:
I think the main people itaffects are teachers. Teachers pay almost nothing towards a retirement fee. They retire at 55 in wisco and receive 80% of their paycheck for the rest of their life and get 100% healthcare coverage. Seems like a bad way to spend tax money to me.
I doubt your facts are accurate. Nonetheless, what is wrong with people working for 30 to 35 years and then retiring with a pension, knowing they will be cared for when they get sick? Is it more important that we give trillion$ to those who make WMDs and Wall street billionaire?
[quote]Get Real wrote:
I'm from Wisconsin and am working in the private sector. We have taken consessions in pay and benefits for many years now and have down sized several times (which gives me more responsibilities with less pay) but the public sector has not. I'm tired of funding the public sector since they have not made the same tough choices that we have in the private sector. Now is the time to get real.
You are a fool. You should be fighting to get your pension, health coverage and pay returned to reasonable levels, not siding with those who stole it from you as they go after public workers.
Get Real wrote:
I'm from Wisconsin and am working in the private sector. We have taken consessions in pay and benefits for many years now and have down sized several times (which gives me more responsibilities with less pay) but the public sector has not. I'm tired of funding the public sector since they have not made the same tough choices that we have in the private sector. Now is the time to get real.
This has nothing to do with college degrees (I could argue that the folks with college degrees got us into this pickle), it's more about weather folks have a backbone to make tough decisions or not and be willing to share the pain.
This is the general attitude, but it is empirically false.
1) Public sectors do make concessions. I haven't looked at CBAs in Wisconsin, but in the vast majority of states public sector workers have taken pay cuts and made other concessions.
2) Because unions negotiate three year deals (generally), pay for unionized employees in the public sector doesn't fall as quickly. However, when the economy bounces back, the private sector employees will see big raises but public sector employees will not.
Am I a fool?
I do believe that I am getting paid at a fair market value for the work / responsibilities that I have compared to similar jobs around the country. This is the supply / demand part that I mentioned before. So, I'm being paid at market value. I do have a choice to stay at the company I'm at or try to find something better elsewhere though. I believe that this is not in the thoughts of many public sector folks because their experience is based on entitlements versus the going market value, (which changes over time)and personal performance.
The public sector unions are willing to make concessions but they are not willing to give up their collective bargaining rights. That's a big difference. And you should also know that public sector workers have seen their wages erode considerably in comparison to the private sector workers of comparable education since 1980.
[quote]Get Real wrote:
Am I a fool?
I do believe that I am getting paid at a fair market value for the work / responsibilities that I have compared to similar jobs around the country. This is the supply / demand part that I mentioned before.
What garbage. "Fair" market. One that pays tens of millions to investment bankers for breaking up companies, throwing workers onto the street, and sending jobs overseas to virtual slave labor -- while begrudging any payments to teachers and firemen. there is nothing fair about the market -- it is a rigged game. While not knowing this as a youngster can be chalked up to naivite, not knowing it after some years in the real world indeed makes you a fool.