And how about John Walker in second, also under the old WR. The thing that is incredible about this race is it was a championships final, no rabbits, no guys on drugs, etc. Just guys going at it. Bayi just went for it from the gun that day, lots of guts!
History wrote:
no guys on drugs....!
Yes, steroids, amphetamines, and blood transfusions had not been invented yet in 1974. And people back then were only honest, but today, everyone is evil. Ah, the good ol' days....
jjjjjjjjj wrote:out in 54.4,1:51! he had a sub 3:30 in him on that day with a 56/1:53 start and pacers.
possibly 0.75s for uneven pace & upto 2.75s for no wabbit to bell, so we are talking upto mid-3'28 ( that stadium was pretty wide open & windy which woud make it even faster, but i don't think you can go wrong with 3'28.5 - 3'29.0 )
this was a time not actually run until morceli in mid-'90s !
interesting thing is, he was ~ 1'44.5 guy as well ( presumably ran that off his 1500 training )
1'44.5/3'28.5 ->7'24.7 , 12'55.2
1'44.5/3'29.0 ->7'26.9 , 13'00.1
now, he wasn't training for 3 or 5k at the time, but i think off his 1500 training at the time, he couda challenged 7'30 & certainly the then 5k wr of 13'13 ( a <13'10 sounds reasonable )
he did turn to the 3k SC later & with 1/2 decent technique he couda gone 8'05 - 8'10 & wr at time was 8'19
It's unfortunate that Bayi didn't get to race Walker in the 1976 Olympics. He is definitely one of the more underrated miling greats. A 3:32 given the way he ran it stands up to any of the great 1500s run.
In that final, name me the guys on drugs. It was the Commonwealth Games, not the Olympics with Europeans or Americans, etc.
Seriously out of those nine guys in that race tell us who was on drugs?
'he did turn to the 3k SC later* & with 1/2 decent technique he couda gone 8'05 - 8'10 & wr at time was 8'19'
Which race are you referring to here?
ventolin^3 wrote:
jjjjjjjjj wrote:out in 54.4,1:51! he had a sub 3:30 in him on that day with a 56/1:53 start and pacers.possibly 0.75s for uneven pace & upto 2.75s for no wabbit to bell, so we are talking upto mid-3'28 ( that stadium was pretty wide open & windy which woud make it even faster, but i don't think you can go wrong with 3'28.5 - 3'29.0 )
this was a time not actually run until morceli in mid-'90s !
interesting thing is, he was ~ 1'44.5 guy as well ( presumably ran that off his 1500 training )
1'44.5/3'28.5 ->7'24.7 , 12'55.2
1'44.5/3'29.0 ->7'26.9 , 13'00.1
now, he wasn't training for 3 or 5k at the time, but i think off his 1500 training at the time, he couda challenged 7'30 & certainly the then 5k wr of 13'13 ( a <13'10 sounds reasonable )
he did turn to the 3k SC later & with 1/2 decent technique he couda gone 8'05 - 8'10 & wr at time was 8'19
good analysis. always look forward to.
DocLove wrote:Which race are you referring to here?
if he had tried it in '74
not the shot-fighter who tried to run away with it in moscow
One more question for Ventolin, what do you reckon Keino's 3:35 at altitude was worth at sea level?
A few statistics wrong, even though I agree with your point.
Bayi's best 800 was 1:45.3, set at Christchurch in '74. Walker beat him there.
The WR in the steeplechase was 8:13.91 in 1973 (Ben Jipcho). Bayi ran 8:12 or so at the Moscow Olympics. By that time, the WR was 8:05 by Henry Rono.
I do agree with you that Bayi could have been a 8:05 guy or so if he'd concentrated on the steeple.
Jipcho was third in the '74 Commonwealth 1500 that Bayi won in 3:32.2 In the same games he won the 5000 in 13:14 (which was close to the WR at the time) and the steeple in 8:19. Now there's a guy who is under-recognized.
ventolin^3 wrote:
possibly 0.75s for uneven pace & upto 2.75s for no wabbit to bell, so we are talking upto mid-3'28 ( that stadium was pretty wide open & windy which woud make it even faster, but i don't think you can go wrong with 3'28.5 - 3'29.0 )
this was a time not actually run until morceli in mid-'90s !
interesting thing is, he was ~ 1'44.5 guy as well ( presumably ran that off his 1500 training )
1'44.5/3'28.5 ->7'24.7 , 12'55.2
1'44.5/3'29.0 ->7'26.9 , 13'00.1
now, he wasn't training for 3 or 5k at the time, but i think off his 1500 training at the time, he couda challenged 7'30 & certainly the then 5k wr of 13'13 ( a <13'10 sounds reasonable )
he did turn to the 3k SC later & with 1/2 decent technique he couda gone 8'05 - 8'10 & wr at time was 8'19
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
44 YEARS AGO, Jim Ryun ran 3:33.1 with a 2:46.6 last 1200.
two minute thousand wrote:The WR in the steeplechase was 8:13.91 in 1973 (Ben Jipcho)
it's 872 on all time lists, but for some reason some progessions don't mention it
DocLove wrote:One more question for Ventolin, what do you reckon Keino's 3:35 at altitude was worth at sea level?
if you flatten out his splits + no wabbit for about a lap to the bell + ncaa altitude conversions + wind/altitude calculator, iirc
~ 3'28-flat
but i'll have to find the post
the problem mostly is with idiots who think africans run as fast at sea-level as at altitude - they don't realise the kenyans for 1st time were sent to prep camp before mexico & trained full-time for that meet which they never had before - the kenyan who almost front-ran the gold wouda been in near 1'43-flat shape ( perhaps just under ) at sea-level with standard wabbit to bell
ventolin^3 wrote:the kenyan who almost front-ran the gold wouda been in near 1'43-flat shape ( perhaps just under ) at sea-level with standard wabbit to bell
checking ole post, this looks more like :
1'43.00 - 1'43.25
What does that make Doubell's winning time of 1:44.40 then?
Keeping in mind that he (Doubell) never broke 1:46 outside of Mexio City?
he ran near "usual" 2s differential, had pacers to almost 600m ( the pack ( have to check the vid ))
- the altitude offered them ~ 0.70s disadvantage ( trade off between hypoxia ( according to ncaa tables ) & somewhat compensating less air-resistance ( jrm calculator )
- extra drafting to 600m offered ~ 0.50s/advantage over standard wabbit-to-bell
overall,
-0.70 + 0.50 = -0.20
i'd have to say, if he'd run a 800 that day at sea-level with standard wabbit-to-bell, off 2s,
~ 1'44.2
i'd have to say there was possibly 1s difference in ability between them that day, but one ran a suicidal race & the other perfect...
1967 wrote:
44 YEARS AGO, Jim Ryun ran 3:33.1 with a 2:46.6 last 1200.
Don't forget his 3:39 47 YEARS AGO! As a 17 year old on a cinder track!
'the altitude offered them ~ 0.70s '
That sounds about right