Andy Bayer of Indiana 7:48, Hoosiers have 3 under 8

Indiana went 3-8 in the 3k last year at NCAAs in a field of 15 studs. They also had an All American DMR. Doesnt seem bad to me.

What is does seem like is that they are just about the only distance guys that have a mark down in the event that will get them to NCAAs and can either put in some solid training now, or more likely open up more options qualifying in other events.

Remember:

If you run fast at U of Washington or Notre Dame, it DOESN'T COUNT because the track is too big.

If you run fast at your home meet, it DOESN'T COUNT because you were at home and you obviously can't handle the pressure of a meet located elsewhere.

If you run fast early then it DOESN'T COUNT because you were clearly "peaking" (whatever that means) for this race and you'll be toast come nationals.

If you run fast indoors then it DOESN'T COUNT because only outdoor track counts.

If you run fast throughout most of your year but you have some sub-par races or get injured, it DOESN'T COUNT because you're a "headcase."

If a coach develops 9:00-9:15 types into even better runners, it DOESN'T COUNT because, um, Sam Bell was a good coach?

Do you want your times to COUNT?

-PRs must be set at the national championships.

-4:00/8:00 mile/3k runners must open up no faster than 4:12/8:20

-You must be near the bottom on the list of national qualifiers, because if you PR by a little bit at nationals, it won't be good enough.

-All-American awards or top-10 team XC finishes mean NOTHING. National champions are the only runners who exist.

-No going to Oregon. Their PRs never count, because they have Phil Knight's "full support," which everybody knows is worth at least 15 seconds in the mile.

It seems the criticism of IU's "early peaking" originates in the 08/09 season when they seemed to struggle at indoor Nats and outdoor after a strong start, whereas in 09/10 they seemed to get a good handle on things and remained in contention throughout. Fair assessment?

400-1500 guy wrote:

It seems the criticism of IU's "early peaking" originates in the 08/09 season when they seemed to struggle at indoor Nats and outdoor after a strong start, whereas in 09/10 they seemed to get a good handle on things and remained in contention throughout. Fair assessment?

That and 2009 XC when the team faded late in the year and had a terrible race at Great Lakes Regional. But definitely an accurate assessment.

It actually goes back a long, long way before that. They've been running PRs in January for as long as I can remember. Why they don't just shift their training scheme out 5-6weeks is beyond me.

400-1500 guy wrote:

It seems the criticism of IU's "early peaking" originates in the 08/09 season when they seemed to struggle at indoor Nats and outdoor after a strong start, whereas in 09/10 they seemed to get a good handle on things and remained in contention throughout. Fair assessment?

Because it obviously doesn't affect them and they were the only school to score two guys in the 3k last year and could possibly have four guys in the race this year from the looks of this race.

you sir, are a dipshit.

Indiana has one of the best teams depth wise in the nation, do I have to remind you that they finished 7th at NCAAs in cross, does that sound like they peaked too early?? NO. So, look at some more recent facts if you want an accurate prediction of how these guy's seasons will turn out, barring injury, I expect Bayer and Poore to dominate indoors and out, and Indiana has a great crew of freshman and sophmores, plus a good number of top Indiana runners going there next year. Bayer is capable of a 7:42 at least, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he qualified in the 1500 or 5k.

Anyone who says Helmer hasn't done a wonderful job compared to Chapman is being silly. However, I don't think the recipe of distance and a couple field studs in the recipe to win Big Tens. They'll still struggle to be top 3 against Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Ohio State.

Well it depends on what you care about. Teams in the Big 10 like Indiana and Penn State will have more quality athletes scoring big points at nationals, while Ohio State, or Minnesota may do better at a conference type meet. It is all relative.

I think Andy Bayer is the most underrated stud from a studly grade. I think it is because he wasnt as big a name as Derrick, Puskedra, Fernandez, Lowe, and Finnerty. But he has PRs that are in the same stratosphere and I dont think he was even sub-9 in HS. Talk about improvement

The fact that they run fast early season and then fade shows their coach DOES NOT know how to peak them. I feel sorry for those guys as they are obviously talented and their coach is pounding them into the ground with speed work when everyone else is still doing strength work. Makes you wonder how fast they could run with a coach who peaked them for the Nationals.

To put this into perspective. The year that Michael Fout won indiana's cross country state meet and Footlocker he ran 15:31 through 5k on LaVern gibson. Bayer only ran 16:02.

That same year Bayer won the 3200 at state in 9:02.

The previous year, Bayer only ran 16:36 at his semi-state in cross and 9:39 for the 3200 at state

Look how far he's come

They are much improved since Chapman stopped coaching. Same talent level with much better results!

why are people still concerned with Helmer vs. Chapman. IU is running well yet some of their runners still need to take a shot at the past coaches who never had a chance with their talent. Chapman's runners are glad IU is doing well and supporting Helmer's team. There is no need to take shots at people for no reason.

Don'tDroptheBatonBayer wrote:

Any idea who they're going to use on their DMR, with Turner redshirting? Bayer for the mile, I'd guess, but they don't seem to have a lot of options on the 800/1200 legs without De'Sean.

They have Ben Hubers who went 7:59 and is probably better at lower distances. Also they had guys go 1-2 in the mile running 4:05 at this meet beating sub-4 miler Eric Harasyn of Oklahoma. They could be solid 12-8 prospects.

Splits from the race

31.15

31.40

31.57

32.24

2:06.36 800

32.06

2:38.42 1K

31.70

31.49

31.25

4:12.86 1600

31.14

31.24

5:15.24 2K

30.32

31.13

30.86

30.50

30.12

7:48.17 3K

Start-1K =2:38..42

1K – 2K = 2:36.82

2K – 3K = 2:32.97

Last 1600 = 4:06.78

you know you've made it as a program when people actually waste time arguing that your great performances aren't actually worth anything and disparages your achievements by saying "in the past, they weren't any good."

how about some perspective. the year former Hoosier Sean Jefferson was either mile NCAA champ or runner-up, his best 3K of the year was 8:06. 4 of these guys would have beaten him. that's real progress for the IU program. a strong IU makes a strong big ten makes a strong NCAA. what's not to like?

I don't know anything about Indiana... but I don't care when you run those times... they are FAST. I remember watching Adam Goucher at BU many many years ago and thinking what a stud he was... and he ran slower then these guys (don't remember the exact time... maybe 7:50?).

To the guy who says the IU guy can run 7:42, that is REALLY fast. Unless I am mistaken, Bayer is now the 4th fastest American Collegiate? Rupp: 7:44, Goucher: 7:46, Falcon: 7:46, Bayer: 7:48

Cragg has the indoor Collegiate Record at 7:38 and to put that into perspective... if I recall... Broe has the American Record at 7:39. Both were about 13:10 type runners when they ran that.

SO... a 7:42 would probably translate to about a 13:15'ish. Not impossible (Hall and Dobson ran about that while in college, and this guy Bayer may be as good as Dobson was)... but that is a far cry from 7:48!

Speaking of Indiana... what happened to their other stud 3k guy... Stephen Haas? He ran 7:50'ish several years ago. I would think he would be one of the guys thinking about sub 13:10 by now.

Funny you should mention Haas as he actually rabbitted this race through 2K (5:15). He is still training in Bloomington with Chapman as part of Team Indiana Elite. He has run around 13:30/28:20 in recent years. Ran a controlled 2:18 in his first marathon about a year ago to get the OT Qualifier.

Let's get ventolin^3 up in here to even the splits out and tell us what Bayer could have run with a wabbit and perfect pacing.