OK, Fair enough all around.
Regarding:
"You continue to miss MY crux. (Is it up to you to determine another person's crux?) The crux is that we ruin relationships by making sex too important..."
I understand that you think that "we" ruin relationships... I object to the royal "we". I do not ruin relationships... Nor do I make sex too important. I do not believe that I can speak for others on this point. I do not believe that you should either.
"I have said that we should avoid lying. It's not optimal. But everyone is dishonest with others in one way or another. And sometime lying is actually good."
I do not think that we should avoid lying in general. I do not believe that the statement,"to lie is bad", is true. I believe that lying is bad sometimes and good other times. There is always the rather simple "If the Nazis came knocking at your door and asked if you were hiding a Jew in your house..." example to show that lying can be very good indeed.
Everyone is dishonest to others in one way or another. Yes, and that is totally missing the point. The question is not about lying in the abstract but rather lying to a specific person about a specific topic.
"I am still astounded that you continue to hold you have never been dishonest with your spouse. Do your really think anyone takes that seriously? Never, really? "
No. Never. Really. My spouse is in every way my love, my life, my world. The thought of lying to her about anything is completely foreign. As far as anyone taking that seriously, that is really not my concern. I would imagine that some might have a hard time imagining this. I imagine that others have similar attitudes and relationships. As you ( I think correctly) point out (perhaps in slightly different contexts) the human specie is a remarkably moldable creature and one with the gift of being able to choose. I have chosen a path that holds my spouse and my relationship with her on a higher plane such that the act of deceit simply has no place there. I honestly feel sorry for others who do not make this choice. But I understand that it is not for me to speak for them.
"You are trying to steer the argument to your point but it has never been the crux that I have discussed.I have argued about the need to allow people the freedom to have more than one partner, ideally through mutual agreement."
Yes, it is true. I am interested in looking at the bigger picture. Or at least at what is attainable for us as humans. And I can say with certainty that something much better than what is being described by you and some others is indeed possible for some human beings. I can only hope and suspect that it is possible for most human beings but I can not say this with certainty.
As far as people having more than one partner. I really do not disagree with the statement "Some people may form great, healthy relationships that include multiple sexual partners for one or both people." I do not believe that this would somehow be universally better if it were a model that people lived by. Nor do I think that it would be universally worse. Indeed, in this whole discussion it seems to that far too many grand universally applicable proclamations are being made, both by you and by your "opponents".
"I am not saying you should promise not to cheat and break that promise. But to say that all instances of cheating are pure evil fails to address the complexity of relationships."
First, I think the term "cheating" is infantile. But I recognize that people use it so, OK I'll use it here reluctantly. For the purposes of this discussion, I define "cheating" as having sex outside of marriage when one is in a marriage. I am not sure if that is the same definition that you are using.
Using this definition for the sake of communication I have never said anything along the lines of "all instances of cheating are pure evil". You can check my posts if you wish but I'm pretty sure of this. So, I am really not sure who you are arguing with when you state this in discussion with me.
I continue to hold that:
1) It is not up to you (the royal "you") to determine what is important to your spouse
2) The OP (and quite a few others) are lying to their spouses about things that their spouses think are important.
3) The reason that they are lying is that they are cowards (as opposed to the Jew-hiders who lie out of courage) who lack the integrity and the guts to live an honest life, at least with their own spouses.
It is not that one lies. It is why one lies. Toward what end? For whose benefit? At what cost?
Now, as per my habit, I have addressed your points. I have yet to see you address mine. Perhaps a simple honest answer to my previous questions would make sense.