Great work (and I agree with the false trail laying from Kip) but what is the motive of the purported accomplice?
Great work (and I agree with the false trail laying from Kip) but what is the motive of the purported accomplice?
Yes, interesting observation. The person on Bolyston Street looks younger (maybe the angle?) and also does not look somewhat fresh and dry, not like someone who just ran the Boston course for 26.1 miles. Also, fyi, if you look at the baa 5k finish picture, the right hand is lifting up the blue jacket for the "reveal" of the number. just another observation.
Has boston 2007 been vetted? 2:58 is an interesting time on a yr where it was cold and super windy. In fact the race was almost cancelled due to a potential noreaster that day.
above should say "looks fresh and dry"
Race detective wrote:
(cont. from previous post)
1) The possibility of a cloned chip was presented much earlier in this thread. ‘Speculation’ (p. 32, 1/13/11, 8:08 pm) proposed such an explanation for how Kip could have cheated at the 2010 Boston Marathon. He thought it might have been Kip’s friend Ben, but Kip’s similar looking brother Kurt makes far more sense.
A 'cloned chip'? No, the magic doesn't exist. So much for that idea.
Yeah--the part about the cloned chip is where it lost me. I'm on board with the accomplice thing. It would explain alot. Shoe changes--theres no reason to do this unless its two different runners. If both Kip and his brother have 1:30 HM speed they could just hook up on the course or just off the course and hand off the chip. There may also be course jumping when convenient.
I like the idea of having a twin brother doing all of this, but the truth is, I think it is just Kip. Having a brother involved just sounds too complicated.
Now could the brother be driving the car or some such, that I wouldn't be surprised by.
But I don't think he is running in the races.
One thing I've learned in all this....Never underestimate Kip. If he's made up an entire marathon, it wouldn't be to crazy to think he's using his brother in races. Agreed on the chip thing though. How would you duplicate a chip?
I don't think it's "magic"- it's called technology. A timing chip is basically just an RFID, and I remember a pretty heated debate about the possibility of cloning these when they were starting to be used for toll lanes. Here's just one article where they discuss the feasibility:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/25/2500.asp
"A noted computer security expert warns that toll road transponders used by more than a million California motorists could be vulnerable to attack by digital thieves. Nate Lawson, founder of the computer security firm Root Labs, helped design the BD+ copy protection system used on the latest generation Blu-ray discs. When Lawson set out to investigate what privacy protections the FasTrak transponders offered, he was surprised to find there were none...Lawson also documented the method used to reprogram his transponder with another ID code. This raises the possibility that unscrupulous individuals could "clone" the transponder belonging to someone else's account, meaning an innocent driver would be charged for every trip made with the cloned device. Lawson suggested that in a tech-savvy area like the Silicon Valley, it was entirely possible that such cloning may already be taking place. By never using the same ID code twice, a clever ID thief would elude easy detection. Few motorists would go to the hassle of challenging a single stray charge on their FasTrak bill."
Why anyone would go to such lengths, who knows, but I also would say the same thing about creating a bogus marathon website.
It looks like the article is coming out in this Friday's edition.
Agreed, fascinating though cloned chips and cloned Kips are I think some serious Occams Razor needs to be applied here.
The additional thought is that in manipulating us to think this way it kind of lessens the heat on him alone.
I haven't run many races recently, but when I was doing them 99% of the time you picked up your chip when you arrived for the race. It seems unlikely that he clones that chip in his car right before the race.
Of course he could be using his own chip. I know there are a couple of race directors on this thread from races Kip has run. Any way one of them could find out if Kip used his own chip in their race? That's usually part of the entry form, right?
The use of one's own chip is a good angle I hadn't thought about. Would definitely make things a lot easier.
At Boston, bib and chip pick-up is done before race, and I'm sure a lot of the other races allow pick-up before the race too. Even some 5K races allow this.
Like your suggestion of finding out if he used his own chip(s).
Look..Kip isn't that sophisticated. He set up a really crappy WestWyoming marathon race website with terrible names in the results, he's come onto this forum as writestuffdavis@aol(fake) trying to take away information, he's probably created a fake facebook profile of KentLitton, so what makes you think he's going to be smart enough to duplicate RFID chips? Cmon...The guy had his fake races hosted in the same spot as his dentist practice (by Ben Millefoglie-is he real?). Do you really think he's that sophisticated?
Race detective wrote:
They are related, and are brothers, not twins. The Crim race results show Kurt’s city. I found an internet article about Kurt’s business identifying him from that same city which includes a quote from Kurt referencing his “dentist brother”. (Note: as the article is about Kurt’s business I am choosing not to link it here and recommend similarly not link it. It is easily found by searching; article is from 2007.) From the 2007 Crim 10 Mile race results, it is seen that Kurt is 3 years younger than Kip.
http://results.active.com/uploads/txt/47395.txt
This is a fascinating theory and quite compelling. However, I don't understand what motivation Kurt would have to conspire with his brother in this way. He does not seem to have any real athletic background/history of racing (unlike Kip) - 2 mediocre times listed on Athlinks from 2005 and 2007 is all we have. The article on his business makes it clear he is pretty successful and very busy, with little time for trips to races all around the country in order to help his brother to cheat. He even says in the article that he is not like his brother in being able to take time off whenever he wants. The article was written before the recession, so it is quite possible his business situation has changed considerably. Regardless, I still don't understand what his motivation could possibly be. Any thoughts on this Race detective?
kirkaz wrote:
Look..Kip isn't that sophisticated. He set up a really crappy WestWyoming marathon race website with terrible names in the results, he's come onto this forum as writestuffdavis@aol(fake) trying to take away information, he's probably created a fake facebook profile of KentLitton, so what makes you think he's going to be smart enough to duplicate RFID chips? Cmon...The guy had his fake races hosted in the same spot as his dentist practice (by Ben Millefoglie-is he real?). Do you really think he's that sophisticated?
Are you kidding? Kip is so good that in fact none of us here are real... that's right... you've all been duped. None of us exist!
Except dukerdog, I know he exists, not sure exactly who he is but I can assure he exists, as does scotth. But... I know from being here from early on, I don't think I exist so...
Seriously at times you guys are way over-thinking this thing. That being said, a lot of good work has been done here also and many here are to be commended for their efforts.
I too can confirm that dukerdog exists.
Having mulled it over in the gym, I don't buy the brother theory.
1. What's his motive? No glory for him and potentially gets his name dragged through the mud if exposed.
2. Where are the missing mid-race photos? A big part of the evidence against Kip is no cameraman snaps him out on course where he should be, if an accomplice is running, why no photos?
3. Chip-cloning appears to be fantasy, what about races where the chip is in the number? You may as well hypothesise that he's invented teleportation because "Well hey he's smart".
4. The accomplice theory adds more questions than it answers and other than occasional difficult to cheat on bits of courses is not required. A race director agreed with me that in one very difficult to cheat part of his course you couldn't discount he ran that part and we know he's a capable runner.
Oh and I don't buy the "I am sorry" posts, trolling and or misinformation was how it seemed to me.
This is probably Kip
Yes, there is an attention-seeking component even with the notoriety it appears.
Florida midtimer wrote:
Yes, interesting observation. The person on Bolyston Street looks younger (maybe the angle?) and also does not look somewhat fresh and dry, not like someone who just ran the Boston course for 26.1 miles. Also, fyi, if you look at the baa 5k finish picture, the right hand is lifting up the blue jacket for the "reveal" of the number. just another observation.
Has boston 2007 been vetted? 2:58 is an interesting time on a yr where it was cold and super windy. In fact the race was almost cancelled due to a potential noreaster that day.
I was going to note that the picture from the 5k looks a bit different from the marathon the next day.
Actually, the guy in the 5k looks a lot more like the Boylston st picture than the other one.
What was the race where the RD questioned why Kip didn't have his D-tag on his shoe? Kip said it broke so he put it in his sock. That might be a race where he kept the chip in his hand so he could pass it off more easily.
I find it hard to believe that his brother is at every race. But the simple explanation is that he's not. They probably only raced "together" a few times.