“When I came to Alberto, I thought I was done being hurt,” Ritzenhein said. “But this is the longest cycle of injuries t

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  • Racer, not "runner"
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 8:46am CST
    re: just a runner.
    Forum Index
    just a runner. wrote:

    The problem with Al Sal is that he is looking for a secret. The secret is running more, plain as the nose on your face, throw the rest of the shit away and run more.

    Shit, just go to Hodgies site and look at BR's log, plain and simple, just run.

    Who the heck is "BR"? "Just running" hadn't done anything for Ritz's prs, like 4 secs off 5k, 2 secs off 10k, from college under Wetmore. Nor, had it gotten him any hardware like a bronze medal.
  • Shoebacca
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 9:00am CST
    re: Racer, not "runner"
    Forum Index

    Bill Rodgers.
  • Remember
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 12:29pm CST
    re: Shoebacca
    Forum Index
    Shoebacca wrote:

    Bill Rodgers.

    Bill Rodgers was the "spoiled" Galen Rupp of his own day, saying he'd never lose to someone with a day job, only to proven wrong and come in 4th at the Olympics.
  • just a runner.
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 12:31pm CST
    re: Remember
    Forum Index
    Remember wrote:

    Shoebacca wrote:

    Bill Rodgers.

    Bill Rodgers was the "spoiled" Galen Rupp of his own day, saying he'd never lose to someone with a day job, only to proven wrong and come in 4th at the Olympics.


    What? Are you a f***in idiot?

    You got it all wrong.
  • Remember
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 12:35pm CST
    re: just a runner.
    Forum Index
    just a runner. wrote:

    Remember wrote:

    Shoebacca wrote:

    Bill Rodgers.

    Bill Rodgers was the "spoiled" Galen Rupp of his own day, saying he'd never lose to someone with a day job, only to proven wrong and come in 4th at the Olympics.


    What? Are you a f***in idiot?

    You got it all wrong.


    I'm sorry, misplaced a decimal point, hahaha.

    10.1976 Montreal Olympics (2:25:14) 40th
  • PhysMech
    registered
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 1:35pm CST
    re: themanontherun
    Forum Index
    themanontherun wrote:

    As Salazar sees it, though, Ritzenhein needs to have perfect biomechanics if he is to have a chance at finishing ahead of Gebrselassie and Keflezighi, both of whom train relentlessly and seem to run effortlessly.

    Geb is great despite his less than perfect biomechanics. Geb has contributed greatly to the sport of running, but his running mechanics have been one of the biggest distractions ever to our understanding of efficient distance running biomechanics.

    IMO, Salazar should be looking at Tadese, Yifter, Viren, and Kaki for the future of biomechanics.

    Salazar's idea of "pawing at the ground" just before impact to decrease the braking effect actually adds to impact stress, increases the braking effect, and reduces efficiency.
  • no one
    registered
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 1:36pm CST
    re: Remember
    Forum Index

    Salazar focus on running mechanics/form?
    Help or hinder his career?
    Am I missing something?
    Probably ...
  • not interested
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 5:01pm CST
    re: vfdafasdf
    Forum Index
    vfdafasdf wrote:
    How many times did you meet her?

    At least once more than you have
  • Good art
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 6:16pm CST
    re: me again
    Forum Index
    me again wrote:

    The Author says about Salazar's current running,
    "...he moves stiffly, with a lock-jointed gait like the canter of an elderly racehorse."

    "...When I told him after the run that his form looked good, he flushed with pleasure."


    This writer is a jerk.

    Can you explain why these comments from the article make the writer "a jerk"?
  • someone else
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 6:30pm CST
    re: jus wondering....
    Forum Index
    jus wondering.... wrote:

    How many times has Mr. Hudson posted on this thread?

    What I'm wondering is why so many people assume somebody's trolling the thread when multiple people disagree with them? Can't you just accept that not everyone thinks like you do?
  • someone else
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 6:39pm CST
    re: just a runner.
    Forum Index
    just a runner. wrote:

    The problem with Al Sal is that he is looking for a secret. The secret is running more, plain as the nose on your face, throw the rest of the shit away and run more.

    Shit, just go to Hodgies site and look at BR's log, plain and simple, just run.

    If you had read the article, you would realize that that was also Salazar's approach when he was a competitive world class runner. The question is, what changed to make him so bent on this type of approach? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I don't think yours is the whole story. It's just not that simple, but you act like it is even though Alberto has been there before and is now believes he has answers beyond this. For you to say conclusively what is best when you don't even know what made him arrive at this conclusion is just childish of you, and you should stop being so naive. My point is, I hate it when people act like they are certain about anything when it just is not a settled debate. You need to think outside the box a little more.
  • mayeroff
    registered
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 7:20pm CST
    re: midwest dominates
    Forum Index
    midwest dominates wrote:

    Jason,

    I would be very interested in your opinion when it comes to Alberto coaching the marathon. You seem to be very knowledgable when it comes to marathon training.

    I have been disappointed in the fact that none of Alberto's athletes ever improve upon their debut marathon under his training. Do you think that this is just bad luck or is he missing something?

    I have met Mr. Salazar and I have a great deal of admiration for him as a coach, person and athlete. When I was young and had never run a race in my life, his amazing victories at NYC really made me fascinated about the marathon.

    Based solely on what I have read about the training of Mr. Salazar's athletes, having read and observed the training of runners around the world, and having done a few things right (and many things wrong) with my very limited amount of talent, I can offer the following statements;

    (1) To train for the marathon you need to do basically 2 things:
    (a) Run enough miles and long runs to put the strength in your legs to get to the finish line without slowing down and...
    (b) Run enough miles at your goal pace (and slightly faster) to improve your system to be able to handle the pace. This is supported by the wonderful posts that Mr. Renato Canova has posted on this site.

    (2) From what I've read about underwater treadmills, cryosaunas, negative-gravity treadmills, biomechanical analysis, interval workouts right after a race, etc., it is possible that Mr. Salazar has made things too complex. Look what happened to Mizuki Noguchi when they tried to change her mechanics before the Beijing Olympics!!! Mr. Ritzenhein is a runner with unbelievable talent, and just throwing a simple program at him with moderate (100 mpw) mileage, moderate long runs, regular marathon pace runs, then some intervals in the last 3-4 weeks to sharpen, might be the ticket to his 2:06.

    What I do know about Japanese marathon training programs is that their programs are very simple...and BRUTAL. They are constantly injured. The Japanese corporate team that lives in the town where I am in Japan right now has more than half of its runners dealing with some kind of injury right now....but keep in mind that this same team has sent a runner to each of the last 3 Olympics, in the marathon.

    (3) Mr. Ritzenhein seems to get injured about as much as I do, which is to say, A LOT! Muscles, bones, ligaments and tendons can be very unpredictable structures, and we runners stress the bejesus out of them, constantly taxing the supply of water, macro-nutrients and micro-nutrients. Assuming that Mr. Ritzenheim is getting enough water, carbohydrate, fat and protein, perhaps he should take a closer look at the vitamins, minerals and anti-oxidants that he is putting into his system. When we train as hard as we do, we deplete these micro-nutrients very quickly and create massive oxidative stress that can be squelched somewhat with the right anti-oxidants.

    So in sum, yes I think that Mr. Ritzenhein should pursue a simplified training system, good diet, and some very thorough blood tests to take a look at not only his iron and blood cell count, but also copper, zinc, magnesium, manganese, anti-oxidants, vitamins, etc.
  • noodler
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 8:07pm CST
    re: Ralphy
    Forum Index
    Ralphy wrote:

    I doubt it.
    20 bucks says you hop on the "Dathan-is-a-lazy-injured-bum" bandwagon the second he gets hurt and falls off contention for an OG.

    You have to be in contention for an OG to fall off contention for an OG. Ritz will never be in contention for OG.
  • Good art
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 9:57pm CST
    re: noodler
    Forum Index
    noodler wrote:

    Ralphy wrote:

    I doubt it.
    20 bucks says you hop on the "Dathan-is-a-lazy-injured-bum" bandwagon the second he gets hurt and falls off contention for an OG.

    You have to be in contention for an OG to fall off contention for an OG. Ritz will never be in contention for OG.


    Where on earth did you get your crystal ball?
    The things people say!!
  • Blizzardo
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 10:11pm CST
    re: vfdafasdf
    Forum Index
    vfdafasdf wrote:

    not a jerk wrote:


    Maybe she is noting what she observed. As we want from a journalist.

    Disclaimer: I have met the writer. I though she was very smart, but not a jerk.


    How many times did you meet her? Once? That's hardly enough to know a person. With that said, this article appears to be written by a jerk.


    New Yorker articles are famous for being worked on by a team of people. One writer does the leg work but they get massaged to death by a staff.
  • Blizzardo
    10 years ago 12/27/2010 10:19pm CST
    re: just a runner.
    Forum Index
    just a runner. wrote:

    The problem with Al Sal is that he is looking for a secret. The secret is running more, plain as the nose on your face, throw the rest of the shit away and run more.

    Shit, just go to Hodgies site and look at BR's log, plain and simple, just run.

    Actually, this article and author was the topic of a recent NPR "On Point" with Tom Ashbrook, also featuring Scott Douglas and Bill Rodgers. On the show, Bill Rodgers said the obvious factor is "being born at altitude." It sort of surprised me since I would agree with the above statement, but there you have it from the king of "running more" than the other guy.
  • Really??
    10 years ago 12/28/2010 7:33am CST
    re: PhysMech
    Forum Index

    Geb is great despite his less than perfect biomechanics. Geb has contributed greatly to the sport of running, but his running mechanics have been one of the biggest distractions ever to our understanding of efficient distance running biomechanics.

    IMO, Salazar should be looking at Tadese, Yifter, Viren, and Kaki for the future of biomechanics.

    Salazar's idea of "pawing at the ground" just before impact to decrease the braking effect actually adds to impact stress, increases the braking effect, and reduces efficiency.
    ___________________________________________________________

    So Geb has bad biochemics but Yifter and Tadese don't? Have you seen Tadese run? His head bounces all over the place and moves all around in flipsy flopsy, plus he is so not relaxed and also his arms don't go back as much as desired for an elite, a huge amount of wasted energy in his form.
  • honorable discharge
    10 years ago 12/28/2010 8:46am CST
    re: Really??
    Forum Index

    Wow! Just wow. I can't believe resources are wasted on stuff like this.
  • BR or PR
    10 years ago 12/28/2010 11:06am CST
    re: Really??
    Forum Index

    Paula Radcliffe's form is impeccable and look where it got her. wink-wink
  • Really??
    10 years ago 12/28/2010 11:17am CST
    re: BR or PR
    Forum Index

    I'm just simply implying that Geb does not have worse biochemics then Tadesse and Yifter. Go look at Tadesse running his HM world record.
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