My mom has given more money to the church than to our whole family combined.

Research isn't your strength?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LynnHarveyNyborg-CountryBelieveGod-Intelligence.svg

someone else wrote:

Care to show me that study?

I'm really sorry...

Dawkins wrote:

Research isn't your strength?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LynnHarveyNyborg-

CountryBelieveGod-Intelligence.svg

someone else wrote:

Care to show me that study?

If that's what you call evidence, then you're even more mistaken than I thought. Making a scatter plot of IQ versus religiosity does not constitute research, which I'm sure they knew when they were making that. It does not control for any third variables when potentially hundreds of other factors could be driving the outcome. For instance, people from poorer countries would score lower on an IQ test than people whose upbringing wasn't impoverished, so is this really a graph of economic performance and intelligence or religiosity and intelligence? Furthermore, higher educated people may tend to question things they can't empirically support more because they simply don't need to. They rely on technology and control over nature, but that doesn't make them any more wise for doing so. It just means they felt stable enough in their lives to where they didn't feel a need for a religious explanation. Faith and obedience are hard, and if someone feels as though they don't need it in their life, they will tend to make the lazy decision and forget about it.

Heck, John Harvey himself explains the numerous problems with his study:

He asks, "am I not right in thinking that religious belief is based on perceived knowledge rather than intelligence?"

Therefore, there are a number of reasons this study can't be used to reach the conclusion that atheists are smarter.

1. There are a host of other contributing factors driving the outcome.

2. The research was not done scientifically.

3. We don't know if religiosity even has anything to do with intelligence (see Harvey quote above).

4. Cultural influences could result in intelligent people favoring popular view and being critical while lower IQ simply don't care as much.

5. There is no indication as to whether or not the people with high IQ were religious as it only involved people to whom religion was deemed "very important".

6. Let us not forget that the school system in America is geared toward secular explanations and colleges often expect students to arrive at this conclusion that religion is irrational. Therefore, there is obvious cultural bias in our education system, whereas countries without such biases would have higher percentages of people retaining their beliefs.

7. No original data were used, so the study was based on the findings of others, in which case one can't be sure if selection bias wasn't involved in the gathering of the data.

In sum, this study cannot be used as evidence to support a particular view since there are so many methodological errors involved. Therefore, you have no basis on which to make the claim that intelligent people are more likely to be atheists than "stupid, ignorant" people. Moreover, people living in a framework of unexamined secular assumptions will tend to arrive at secular explanations for phenomena. This applies to even the most intelligent people since only those who are intelligent are likely to be doing research in the first place. This is not meant to criticize you per se, but to help you see that your claims of truth are unfounded and are not based on real-world variables.

It seems more likely that research isn't YOUR strength, since you can't tell a good study from some bored researchers making a scatter plot of some numbers.

Dawkins wrote:

Research isn't your strength?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LynnHarveyNyborg-

CountryBelieveGod-Intelligence.svg

someone else wrote:

Care to show me that study?

As a preface I would state that I do not belong to any religion nor do I really believe in god at all.

That graph shows me nothing but the fact that there is a bunch of countries that do not have the education standards of the Western World. I get this because after a point, the graph seems to flatten out, This shows that there is little difference between a country that has 20% atheist or 80% atheist. So education only works to a point, then does not have much of an effect on the percent of a population that believes in God, and that is around 12 percent atheist. I would even be willing to bet that in most of the countries that have a high percent that believe in God, religion is more than just a spiritual and personal device, it is a way of living in that society. If you do not want to follow that religion, then you will most likely fell like an outsider. In Western culture, which is more individual, it is more acceptable to have different views on religion because religion is much more personal than collective.

As for the OP, I would still argue that his mother was wrong to spend the money that the father gave to her to help raise the kids. That money was supposed to go to helping her kids live a better life, not a charity whether it was religious or not. If the father is not giving her anymore money then it seems like it is her fault for giving away the little money that she has. I think that the OP needs to tell her how he feels, even if that may cause some pain, but let her know that she is hurting more than herself from her actions.

What a mormon

I'm so ugly that when the Mormons come to my door they tell ME to f**k off.Obviously your mom is much too attractive.

It's okay, atheists are on a little bit smarter. On average. It doesn't mean anything at all about you.

So if I give my wife money to get basketball shoes for our son it becomes her money and if she decides to give it to a Salvation Army bell ringer neither my son nor I should be upset that he didn't get his shoes?

No. I'm basically saying the same thing you are. She's been crying to me about how poor she is and how she doesn't have any money to do anything any more, even though I make less than a third of what she does. It's annoying because she isn't anywhere near as "poor" as I am and I don't complain to her or anyone else about it. It's irritating as well because instead of saving any money when she had it she would blow every dime she had on useless things, whether it be the Moron Church or other things. And I'm a bit shocked that so many people think it's fine for a parent to piss away all their money on bullshit while their children starve (my sibling, not me; I've been very frugal with my money from childhood).

And no, the money was not hers to do with as she pleased. It was for several specific things all dealing with the family. How do you not understand that?

Ho Hum wrote:

I don't think you guys are reading the thread. She gave away money (in secret) that wasn't hers to give. I think the OP has good reason to be mad at her, but you've gotta realize that it won't do anything. Nobody ever changed their views based on being yelled at.

Thank you.

should I be upset wrote:

And I'm a bit shocked that so many people think it's fine for a parent to piss away all their money on bullshit while their children starve (my sibling, not me; I've been very frugal with my money from childhood).

Yes, it is fine that she does that. Is she supposed to bail you and your siblings out of every mishap in life? No, you are adults. It would be nice if she helped you, but she should not be expected to. You're spoiled. Don't add being weak on top of that. If you and your siblings can't handle college, then take fewer classes or take a leave of absence so you can save up money for food.

Do not go off on her. Next time she complains, just say in a calm, truly not angry or agressive voice: "Well, you know what you spend your money on. Either make a sacrifice in your spending habits or make some more money."

This is an easy situation. You must be white?

Does she have any magic underwear I can buy?

Should I be upset wrote:

It's kind of worn on me and I think I'm about ready to just go off on her.

Thoughts?

there is nothing religious people love more than to have someone "go off" on their beliefs, they thrive on the feeling of being repressed. It makes them feel special.

Ignore her please of poverty unless she truely askes your opinion.

another someone wrote:

Actually, studies show there is a negative correlation between IQ and/or education and religiousness. So smart and educated people are likely to be less religious than stupid and ignorant people.

But I agree she's unlikely to change her ways at all.

I agree with this.

I would absolutely NOT put up with her bad behavior any more.

Yes, do tell her what you think.

If she doesn't talk to you anymore, all the better, and don't talk to her either.

Life is short, so you might as well surround yourself with happy positive people while you're here.

Your mother did no such thing. For I have not seen a dime of that money.

I believe LDS members are expected to donate 10 percent of their annual salary to the church. Her doubling that amount is maybe her way of trying to make up for lost time.

Point three was circular; you can't use the fact that we don't know if religiosity has anything to do with intelligence to prove the fact that we don't know that religiosity has anything to do with intelligence.

Point four could be better worded: Those who are intelligent tend to find pride in it. They therefore identify more closely with those who are culturally considered intelligent and more readily take on their opinions than someone who does not as readily identify with the intelligentsia, regardless of the worth of the opinions.

Point one was also only a generality of several other points you made.

Everything else was good.

come back wrote:

Next time she claims poverty, I would suggest she approach her church for some financial help. I mean, after all, surely that's what all that donated money is for, right??

This is the right answer of course. Church's are supposed to help the poor and needy, that is why they collect tithes and offerings. Although today a lot of churches, maybe most, spend very little money doing this.