Which collegiate cross country/track & field team has the harshest winter training conditions?

How about Michigan Tech? Gets the cold of the northern latitudes, the wind and snow off of the lake, and the campus is basically up on a big freaking hill. I'm not saying it is worse than some places in Alaska, but it is rough.

Wyoming has to suck: high wind off the front range, cold most of the year, it's in f***ing wyoming, etc.

Anything in Detroit is gonna suck, because when Winter ends, it's still Detroit.

I'm putting in my vote for Grand Forks, ND. Home of the Fighting Sioux. Snow and ice on the ground from mid-October to mid-April, with blizzards possible all the way to the middle of May. In 1992, Corey Imhels (now head coach at Iowa State) ran the state record 3200 of 9:03.65 (solo!) during a raging blizzard/sleet storm, somewhere between 25-30F, heavy precip, and 20+ mph winds. This was at the State Meet in Grand Forks during the third week of May!

Temps are regularly in the single digits above and below zero during the day from December through March, with a particularly cold stretch of two to three weeks during January and February where daytime highs are -10F with overnight lows as cold as -40F. These are not wind chill temps, but air temps. Grand Forks is in a valley, so the cold air settles in on calm days (of which there are few), and the valley acts like a wind tunnel when high pressure moves in from the arctic. It's very common to have days of sub-zero cold and 20mph winds, which makes for some headline grabbing windchills. Also, similar to Alaska, the sun sets around 4:30pm, and rises around 8am in the middle of winter. Coupled with constant overcast days, it has a significant depressant effect.

The University of North Dakota just transitioned to Division I, and within the next few years should have a very nice indoor 300m track. Until then, during winter workouts, the track teams will continue to dodge co-eds on the 12 lap to the mile three lane indoor track with 90 degree turns. Prior to that track being made available, the indoor facilities were so poor, athletes preferred to dress in cold weather gear and head outside to the outdoor track, where coaches had shoveled out most of lane one. Pool running was even preferable to running on the thinly padded, concrete-base, unbanked, ankle-mutilating, 16.5 lap to the mile indoor "track".

While I would hesitate to call it the worst place to train, it is certainly near the top. One can dress for the very cold temps and wind to some extent, and learn to endure the lack of sunlight and unrelenting nature of the conditions. You can build a sort of mental callous to it all and still get out for some excellent training. I would have to say that it affects the volume of training most people are able to do (90 minutes at -15F is very difficult due to sweating and freezing of the clothing, no matter how quality the materials) and carries a huge risk of injury (due to slipping and sliding).

I personally would really hate running in the Pacific NW during the winter--you can't dress for rain with bone-chilling cold, and having to deal with it every day for weeks would be brutal. Good thread.

gunnisackwings wrote:

I don't care what next week looks like. I've been there done that. If you are going to look up stats, look them up historically.

http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/coldest.php

Interesting that Gunnison has been the coldest place in the country that many times since 2005, yet isn't on the top list for most days under freezing.

Anyways, depending on which state you think favors your opinion, it better be on one of these graphs.

Those statistics are showing the number of days that Gunnison was the coldest place during the whole year, not during the winter. Gunnison could have easily gained those numbers with mildly cold weather during the spring or fall, while most other places are still relatively warm. If you look at the statistics at the bottom, Gunnison isn't even on the list of places with the most freezing temperatures per year.

The eastern side South Dakota is just as cold if not colder than North Dakota. I'd say we get more wind the West side is warmer so the pressure systems always give a lot of wind to the east side.

gonna take a wild guess and say alaska

Alaska, SD, ND, and MN all change places as the coldest state/place on earth on a regular basis.. it all depends on wind chill

Hands down Arizona State, it easily gets below 75 and sometimes there are clouds. Horrible conditions.

D3 is for me wrote:

I call BS on the people saying Syracuse/Upstate New York. I go to a college in the uppest state part of New York and it is chilly and windy yes, but it is rare that a day becomes unbearable. The worst run I even endured was when it was in the mid 30s, with torrential rain and 50 mph wind gusts. That is far worse than the normal day here, but I have to imagine somewhere that is par for the course.

If that's the worst run you've had, then you apparently don't run on the bad days. While the "real" upstate (anything above exit 15) gets kinda cold and kinda snowy, at least you guys get sunshine. There's a reason Cornell has so many suicides. Central New York doesn't see the sun from October until April. It's not uncommon to have it snow for a couple weeks at a time. Syracuse has already gotten 71 inches of snow already this year. Oswego (just north of Syracuse) got buried under almost 12 feet of snow in a week and a half in 2007. If you want to see some awesome pictures google "Oswego snowstorm 2007".

Either way, central New York has to be one of the most miserable places to train. Besides, if the constant snowfall, zero sunlight, and temps that usually average around 10 degrees doesn't make you miserable, the 30-40 mph winds are ALWAYS there to finish the job.

The thing that might separate Gunnison and Alamosa from other cold weather sites is altitude.

It's hard enough to breathe in the winter when there is plenty of oxygen available in the wind/cold, but add 7-12k of altitude and it gets tougher. I remember Coach V telling me that they often did their longer runs on this trail that started next to the track (7750') and went straight up.

Tough is pretty relative I suppose. Copious amounts of snow vs. extreme cold all have their elements of tough I suppose.

A little snow and ice never hurt anyone. These are the colleges with the harshest winter training conditions.

#25, The College of Saint Rose

Student Population: 4,949

Most crime at this small college in New York State’s capital, Albany, took place off campus. Most unusually, in 2006, the College of Saint Rose endured eight arsons in nearby public places, according to data it supplied to the federal government. (That number dropped to only one in 2007.) Aggravated assaults were also an off-campus problem. In a statement, the College of Saint Rose said, “"The inclusion of Saint Rose in this ranking is based on a series of arsons that took place in the city of Albany in 2006. The Albany Police Department made an arrest and the arsons stopped. … [This list] certainly unfairly penalizes small to midsized colleges in vibrant city environments and, curiously, does not include institutions that share the same city. The safety of our students has been and always will be a top priority for the College, and we pride ourselves in honestly and accurately reporting all of our crime statistics.”

#24, University of California - Riverside (pictured)

Student Population: 17,187

Founded in 1907 as the Citrus Experiment Station, the University of California, Riverside is a public research university that has boomed with the Southern Californian community around it. UC Riverside has 29 police officers that patrol campus around the clock. Nevertheless, there were 13 cases of arson on campus in the two years analyzed, and off campus, a large number of aggravated assaults.

#23, Yale University (pictured)

Student Population: 11,454

Currently the focus of national attention due to the murder of graduate student Annie Le, Yale University’s New Haven campus is also plagued by lesser crimes. The majority of on-campus crime is smaller offenses, like burglary. Off-campus crime, however, is more serious, with 20 robberies reported in public places in 2006 and nine in 2007. Small comfort: It fared better than archrival Harvard by three slots.

#22, New Jersey Institute of Technology

Student Population: 8,288

Newark, New Jersey has for decades been one the most dangerous cities in the United States. No surprise then, that the New Jersey Institute of Technology, which is in Newark, makes the list. New Jersey’s 128-year-old public, technological research institution is particularly troubled by off-campus crime on public property, like parks and transit stops. On-campus crime is relatively low. In a statement, NJIT said that “Newark is no longer among the nation’s most dangerous cities. In the 2008 list, Newark is listed at #24.” The University added that, from 2007 to 2008, its Clery numbers improved markedly.

#21, Alabama A&M

Student Population: 5,706

A historically black land-grant university in Normal, Alabama, Alabama A&M was established in 1873 by the state legislature as the State Normal School and University for the Education of the Colored Teachers and Students with 61 students, two teachers, and a yearly budget of $1,000. Now the school has 6,000 students. Nearly all crimes happened on the campus, which is located close to Huntsville.

#20, Harvard University (pictured)

Student Population: 25,690

Be warned, smarty-pants: The nation’s oldest university reported more on-campus crime than any other university on this list. The majority of these crimes were burglaries, and Harvard was also near the top for crimes in nearby public places (mostly robberies, assaults, and vehicular thefts.) Harvard was also the highest among the top 25 in terms of rapes listed, although this is likely because the university is particularly good at getting students to report date and acquaintance rape, and therefore may actually reflect campus safety instead of danger.

#19, Buffalo State

Student Population: 10,993

Buffalo State College, with 11,000 students, is the largest school in the State University of New York system (not to be confused with the nearby former SUNY-Buffalo, now known as the University at Buffalo). Police have stepped up patrolling at all the colleges in the city after crime began increasing at a faster rate in student-heavy neighborhoods.

#18, Brown University (pictured)

Student Population: 8,167

Emma Watson chose one of America’s best universities when she elected to go to Brown University. She also chose one of its most crime-ridden. Located in Providence, Rhode Island, Brown’s campus is particularly prone to burglary. Robberies and aggravated assaults were also very high in public places in 2006, though they dropped significantly in 2007.

#17, Springfield College (pictured)

Student Population: 4,806

Springfield College with its core philosophy of "Humanics"—balancing education between the mind, body, and spirit—was founded in 1885 in Springfield, Massachusetts. It's also the birthplace of basketball. The college had a large number of aggravated assaults in 2006, relative to its size, but the rate has since gone down. Most crimes occurred on campus, not around it.

#16, California State University - Monterey Bay

Student Population: 4,080

California State University - Monterey Bay is a small public school founded just 15 years ago on the central coast of California. The university focuses on "outcomes-based education," meaning students are required to demonstrate what they've learned through projects and capstone classes. In terms of this list, it’s a bit of an anomaly. Two-thirds of its students reside on the scenic campus, where burglary is by far the most common crime, though one homicide, the result, the school says, of self-defense from domestic violence (and declared justified by local authorities), strongly impacted its ranking: It was the smallest school, in terms of students, on our list, barely making our cutoff. University spokesman Scott Faust also cited the fact that the school has a very large campus—a former Army base named Ford Ord—given the small student body, as well as the existence of non-student housing on its campus, making it the “equivalent of a small town.”

#15, Norfolk State University (pictured)

Student Population: 6,155

Norfolk State University, one of the largest historically black universities in the nation, is located in Norfolk, Virginia, a major military center with a higher-than-average crime rate. The school granted its first bachelor's degree in 1956, and now offers two doctorate and 15 master's degrees. There was one murder on campus in 2007.

#14, University of Baltimore

Student Population: 5,421

Once the home of the original Washington Monument, Baltimore’s Mt. Vernon district is now home to the University of Baltimore—and some hair-raising crime statistics. Though on-campus crime is relatively low, UB reported 29 robberies and 10 aggravated assaults in public places—such as sidewalks, streets, and public-transit stops—in 2007, up from 9 robberies and five public-place assaults in 2006.

#13, Hampton University (pictured)

Student Population: 5,427

Hampton University is a private, historically black university about 70 miles southeast of Richmond, Virginia. The first classes on the grounds were taught in 1861, in defiance of a state law forbidding teaching slaves and freed blacks to read and write. Doors opened in 1868, and the school still has a dress code. This spring, the campus was put on lockdown when a former student shot two people in a dorm and then killed himself. However, the most common crime on campus is burglary. “These crimes (especially looking at Duke, U Illinois, Yale) are random acts of violence that can happen anytime and anywhere,” the university said in a statement. “Hampton University is a very safe, gated campus surrounded on three-sides by water. Hampton University has an academy-trained police force who patrol on foot, bike and vehicle 24 hours a day seven days a week. All our dorms have a swipe-card access; in addition the front desks are manned 24 hours a day.”

#12, Illinois Institute of Technology

Student Population: 7,277

Located in Chicago, Illinois Tech is a Ph.D.-granting research university established in 1940 when two half-century-old colleges merged. The university focuses on engineering and science, and is trying to push further into the biotechnology field. In recent years, there were more robberies, burglaries, aggravated assaults and vehicle thefts on campus than off. Its main campus occupies 10 city blocks south of the Chicago Loop. Only a third of the 7,277 students are female.

#11, Fitchburg State

Student Population: 6,692

Founded in 1894, Fitchburg State College is a compact campus in a small former mill town in central Massachusetts. To increase a public safety presence despite cuts in funding, Fitchburg police have set up a police substation staffed by interns from the college and local high school. Burglary is the most common crime on campus, and is more common on campus than around it.

#10, North Carolina Central

Student Population: 8,383

North Carolina Central’s name has been linked with crime before—but last time, it was when a stripper enrolled here falsely accused a group of white Duke lacrosse players of raping her. Racial tensions can run high in Durham, North Carolina, as can the crime rates: NCC weathered at least 45 burglaries, 10 assaults, and one murder in 2007. The majority of reported crimes were committed on campus

#9, Bowie State University

Student Population: 5,404

Maryland requires very strict crime reporting standards, and as a result, many of the state’s schools took a hit in our study. Located in suburban Prince George’s County, Bowie State’s crime problems are mostly its own, with few off-campus incidents reported. The campus saw 46 burglaries and eight assaults in 2007. Reached for comment, Bowie State’s Chief of Public Safety Ernest Waiters says, “We are pleased that Bowie State University is a safe campus community.”

#8, South Carolina State (pictured)

Student Population: 4,933

During the civil-rights movement, this historically black college in Orangeburg, South Carolina was the site of the Orangeburg Massacre, a clash with state highway patrolmen that killed three students. Today, the crime is less dramatic: South Carolina State’s campus is particularly troubled by robberies and aggravated assaults.

#7, Grambling State University (pictured)

Student Population: 5,161

A historically black public university in rural Grambling, Louisiana, GSU’s student population is larger than their host town’s entire population. Crime at GSU is predominantly on campus: 2007 saw 99 on-campus burglaries, seven vehicular thefts, six assaults, and an arson. The good news? In the same time frame as our study, Grambling founded its GSU Police program, featuring community crime watches and increased resources for crime prevention. “We take campus safety and security very seriously at GSU,” says a school spokesperson.

#6, University of Maryland - Eastern Shore

Student Population: 4,086

Located in the small town of Princess Anne, with a population of less than 2,400, the quaintness masks some troubles: University of Maryland Eastern Shore’s campus has suffered though a high number of aggravated assaults and burglaries. Off-campus crime is practically non-existent. “There has been a decline in crime over the past two years as we tighten up security in the whole UM system,” responds the university’s police chief, Warren Sumpter. “At the direction of our Board of Regents, we have a committee of public safety officials to look at best practices and make sure they are implemented system wide. Also, the state of Maryland laws of reporting are stricter than other states and what we report under the Clery Act is sometimes different than other schools.”

#5, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (pictured)

Student population: 10,220

Freshman orientation at this world-class institution may often seem like just an extension of Space Camp, but newbies shouldn’t be deceived: This urban Cambridge campus had one of the highest incidents of burglary in the country in 2007. In February, two people were robbed in broad daylight near campus, one victim held “in a choke hold” and then punched, according the school paper. An updated police log is maintained weekly by the school’s Crime Club.

#4, Tufts University (pictured)

Student Population: 9,758

Bordered by working-class neighborhoods, Tufts’ Medford, Massachusetts, campus had 10 aggravated assaults and five robberies in the two years of data we studied. And the Tufts community continued to be disturbed by similar crimes last school year, including multiple armed robberies. Stats from the school’s downtown Boston campus, where its medical school is located, skew its overall ranking higher. Campus police send out email alerts regarding potential dangers soon after they are reported.

#3, University of Maryland-Baltimore

Student Population: 5,884

Plagued by gang violence and a declining economy, Baltimore has long been one of the most crime-ridden cities in the U.S. Officials at UM-Baltimore explain its urban setting is almost certainly why it falls on this list. “Our campus is an oasis of safety in Baltimore,” says Colonel Milland Reed, deputy chief of the school’s police department. “The community where we sit is improving all the time and this is a very safe campus to walk on.” Though on-campus crime wasn’t far above average, crimes committed in nearby public spaces, including sidewalks, streets, and public transit stops, were consistently high, including 18 assaults, 12 vehicular thefts, 16 robberies in 2007

#2, St. Xavier University

Student Population: 5,675

A Catholic school on Chicago's South Side, St. Xavier was founded in 1846 as an all-female institution. Though it’s now co-ed, SXU’s student population skews 73 percent female, and is celebrated for its teaching and nursing schools. The school suffers primarily from off-campus violence, including 37 assaults and 13 rapes in the areas surrounding the campus in 2007.

#1, Emerson College (pictured)

Student population: 4,380

Emerson is the only college in the country dedicated to communication and arts. It also sits in downtown Boston, and many of the crimes it is required to report occur at a nearby subway stations or in adjacent parks or nearby sidewalks, rather than on Emerson property itself. “Emerson College is an extremely safe campus with little or no crime on campus each year,” says Andrew Tiedemann. “Any crimes that happen on Boston Common and in the subway station show up in our report but do not involve our community. “ Still, its students are regularly on that subway, in that park, and they also live in apartments nearby. The school reported more than 80 robberies and 60 aggravated assaults, almost all near campus rather than on it, in 2007.

I think it is all relative. It isn't the easiest to run in Duluth but it isn't that bad. The winters get cold and snowy but we rarely have the 30s and rainy-I'll take -15 over that any day. Footing can be iffy but we have so many trails that get packed down it isn't a problem. It is cold but you get used to it. Plus the summers in Duluth are probably the best in the country.

The worst places are where it is consistently around freezing with lots of precipitation. I think Madison and Chicago would take the cake over anywhere in MN because they have ice storms and freezing rain during the winter. Running in snow is difficult. Running on ice is impossible.

Anywhere in the Canadian Prairies. Regina, Saskatchewan has 4-5 months of -20 to -40 C weather. Simon Bairu is tough as nails for a reason.

Grew up in Buffalo, NY (WNY/Upstate NY). Went to college and ran NCAA for 4 years in Potsdam, NY (Upstate NY / North Country). Worked near Syracuse, NY (Upstate NY / Central NY) for over 2 years and trained pretty consistently. Worked in/near Amarillo, TX (North Texas / Panhandle) for a brief period from October thru mid-December while training competitively. Worked in/near Wisconsin Rapids (Central Wisconsin) for one month (July) while training competitively.

i rank severe cold as the most negative aspect, then snow, then wind. You can shovel snow. You can try (sometimes successfuly) to dodge and run perpendicular to the wind. The cold is always there.

Buffalo is very snowy, cold, and windy.

Potsdam is moderately snowy, very cold, and slightly windy.

Syracuse is very snowy, cold, and windy.

North Texas is cold, very windy, and not snowy.

Wisconsin in July is beautiful - no comment on the winter.

Schools in Upstate NY/North Country have terrible weather due to cold.

WNY (Bflo) and CNY (Syracuse) schools have similarly bad weather due largely in part to lake effect snow.

i always wondered what it was like going to school in Florida, Arizona, SoCal, etc etc and "having" to run indoor track. if you can train outside and do workouts on an outdoor track - do you go to an indoor facility to get used to the harsher air and smaller radius turns?

Schools in/around Rochester & ithaca get bad weather like Bflo and Cuse as well. Possibly Binghamton and Albany in the same category too.

Our track here at San Diego State gets horrendously crowded with snowbirds from the cold East and Nor Cal who come down here to train every Fall and stay until March.

northern coach wrote:

Runners who brave these artic conditions do it to toughen themselves up for harsh xc racing!

Builds the real athletes and makes champions of the few that continue and survive!

If you can mentally cope with the pain you can deal with anything.

Its character building and sorts the men out from the boys-bring it on!

That's hilarious

Do you realize TRACK usually comes after winter most places?

Maine. There xc course is also the nordic ski course...