Soup to Nuts - Letsrun Train Me

Interestingly, at least to me, I'm finding the older I get (I'm 41) the more I'm realizing I have to learn.

One of the things I've recently been emphasizing with my children is the power of choices. That good choices have a lasting impact and that so do bad choices. Furthermore, and this is what i'm learning, you can certainly choose how you react to any particular situation. A lot o f successful people choose to react positively to both opportunities and adversity.

However one makes their choices tends to dictate how they live their life and ultimately choose their own fate.

To that end Billy, I encourage you to start making positive choices that don't seek out conflict. You'll be a better person for it.

Peace

OK, some quick summary stuff on my winter compared to previous years.

1. More miles. I planned to build up to 70s and perhaps even 80s. In fact I averaged 54.1 from end Oct to end April, running 60 in the good weeks and with 5 weeks in the 70s; a couple of missed weeks, injuries and travel brought the average down a bit. While pathetic by Letsrun standards, this mileage is about what I did as a youngster, and much better than the 35-odd I did two winters back, and the 45-50 I averaged last winter.

2. Got stronger. Gym work progressed well, getting up to squatting bodyweight comfortably, then moving onto single-leg exercises as the squats were bothering my back. I can now squat 6x80kg (all the way down), but more importantly do 10 single-leg squats with a 10kg med ball - I couldn't do one a year ago. This has fizzled out a bit; the main gains were earlier but I try to do a little bit each week.

3. Did some hills: planned to do short hills or short sprint technique work every week. I got nowhere near this, but probably once a fortnight managed some short hill sprints during the winter. I then planned a Lydiard-type hill phase for March/April, got badly interrupted, but still got about 6 good sessions in rather than the 12 I planned.

4. Slimmed down. Inspired by this thread I finally started to diet a bit, got down from 75kg at New Year to just under 71.0 last week. I was 70.0 at peak and am determined to shed a bit more, although I did backslide a bit this weekend with a few beers and a barbecue!

5. Quality sessions twice a week: I aim to do something aerobic that's hard enough to provide a stimulus twice each week, and run easily in between. I have been cycling between tempo runs, low key XC races, and interval sessions. Many of the intervals have been 'descending distance' workouts starting with a long rep around the 2k mark, and getting shorter and a bit faster, approaching 3k pace at the end; some of these included up to 10k of reps, which is slower and longer than I would have done in the past. Most of these have been done alone at a controlled pace, and not eyeballs out; in previous years I was able to join a group doing 6x1000-like sessions, and I think I probably pushed too hard in those.

I think that's about all. The next couple of months will see faster paced training, working down to 3000, 1500 and 800 pace, and attempts to run genuinely hard in training and run up some lactate; hoping to peak in early July for 1500.

Dream,

Yes, I read back in this thread a little and you are luckily still probably in the acute phase, not in the chronic phase with your achilles. Do the normal prescribed things for early onset achilles which is mainly rest and the eccentric calf stretches. Hopefully other good info in the docs Eurodonkey sent you.

From what I've read (and did not do in my early onset :-( ) is that it is important to rest as you have from the activity causing the problem and get the swelling (if you have any) soreness and pain down. My advice is to continue to listen to your body and don't try to just run though it. This injury has sat down many middle aged runners. The eccentric calf stretches are consistently prescribed as far as i can tell. Here is a link to the abstract of the origial publication by Alfredson on the effectiveness of this therapy:

http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/26/3/360.abstract

I'm NOT a doc, however, here is an addition to Will's comments on how he did them (and the effectiveness for him) here are some variations:

1) the downward movement is the key part. This is the eccentric part, use both legs to lift yourself, try to use only one leg for the lowering.

2) Start at 10 reps each leg, one set (or what makes sense for you) Build up to trheee sets of 10-15.

3) Also, you can add weight as you build up. Put it in a backpack, or hold on to a dumbell with one arm, use one to balance yourself

4) Build up to doing them without holding on to wall, rail, ... for balance. (My personal trainer (was USA elite mid distance guy) was real big on this variation.

Best of luck for speedy recovery. Then get Eurodonkey to pace you in some workouts!

Euro, I get 90.9% using the calculator on runningforfitness.org. What calculator are you using?

PhysMech wrote:

Euro, I get 90.9% using the calculator on runningforfitness.org. What calculator are you using?

Your one is based on road times - that would make it a bit softer. If you download the Excel sheet on Howard's site, you see they use 757 sec (12:37) as the open standard for track and 774sec (12:54) for road; and for 45 year olds (0.9099) that gives a 'M45 world best' of 13:51 or 14:10.

Ok, so you need 15:24 (track) and 15:46 (road) for a 90% performance at age 45.

It's amazing how cut off from the track most of us Americans become once school competition is finished. Euro has clubs and frequent competitions. Americans are standing outside the fence around the track, next to the "Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted" sign. As our government leaders speak of physical fitness.

Yes, I feel sorry for all of you.

Despite our current dwindling numbers, just about every town has a club (maybe even 3 or 4 of them), and the tracks are owned by local councils - usually in the same complex as the pool etc - so they have a duty to get usage up, and you can get in for $5 per session or some kind of gym-like membership scheme. And you just wouldn't believe the number of races around the country in May/June/July.

I'm not very clear why it doesn't work better in the USA. Probably, like you say, the high schools and universities who own the tracks are worried about liabilities or just find it less hassle to keep the gates closed. But I'm really surprised local clubs haven't sprung up around these high schools which can put on informal entry-on-the-day meetings and get involved in coaching people. It's really not that hard.

For example, I'm off to a meet tomorrow night with my youngest son and a friend of his. (Don't expect any blistering times, I'm burning midnight oil this week and pretty tired). Technically it's a league - 6 clubs, 6 fixtures roughly every 2 weeks - but with 1 to score and any guests welcome, even my 11 year old. Probably a dozen ex-athletes volunteer to be officials, a few people get lapped in the 3000, and everyone can have a go at any event. It costs next to nothing to stage these and it's a really sociable way to spend an evening - much better than a 5k IMHO as everyone gets time to support, chat to friends and so on. I am really surprised track clubs haven't sprung up like this in the USA - from what I read it tends more to be a bunch of sub-17 people saying "let's get some other fast people, be an 'elite team' and race".

Euro, congrats on the great 5000! Your last post inspired substantial envy. :-) As I probably mentioned in an earlier post, I've been a bit of a sport dilettante (with the accompanying "not very good at any of them"), and I have to say that running has been one of the harder sports in which to find a club to run with. I've finally started running with a group here, but scheduling and travel conspires to make even that difficult.

ID, glad you're getting some miles back. My position on injury recovery has always been "the nuclear option" (stretch and strengthen everything I can find). It seems to work, but it's certainly not optimal from a time efficiency standpoint. But I think there's some truth in there that we often benefit from giving everything some strength attention every now and then.

On my front, I think I'm mostly done with that pesky tendonitis. I can feel a little twinge of it after running the Pittsburgh 1/2 marathon on Sunday, but I figure if I can race 13.1, I can start resuming longer training runs on the weekends. Which is good, because .. er, five weeks of ramping training back up at about 55mpw, with no run longer than 9 or 10 miles, didn't do much to help me hit my goals. Things were going nicely until a nasty side stitch at mile 9 took me from comfortable 6:25 pace to plodding along at 6:50 while desperately grabbing at my right side to try to convince it to calm down - I made it to the end in 1:26:56, which mostly leaves me hungry to demolish this time come fall. For now, I'm going to follow ID's plan of working on my shorter distance speed. And the euro plan of shedding a few kilos: I gained about 6lbs when I was injured instead of losing 5lbs as planned. Grr.

But now I'm going to go remind myself to be happy about being able to run a half marathon without my ankle trying to strangle me with my own tendons for injuring it. :)

Happy running, all.

ID, I've been meaning to mention this, but seem to be forgetting every time I make a post. I recall that you said you got a pair of Nike LunarGlides. I have a pair also, and I have not been using them much - using a couple of pairs of Vomero's instead.

The only problem I've had with the Vomero is the lack of arch and torsion control, which seem to be leading to some soreness in front of my heels, on the inside of my feet. So I put the LunarGlides on the other day and my arches feel a bit better, but they really put some strain on my achilles. I've read that they have less of a heel lift than other Nike trainers. Not sure if that's the reason, but they have been harsh on my calfs since I got them. So I would beware of using them at all during your recovery.

Greetings all,

Thought throw out a post to let everyone know I'm working hard towards my recovery. Nothing exciting or sexy to report, though. I totaled 6 very easy miles on a soft bark chip trail in 4 sessions last week. So far 7 mes this week in 2 runs. Lots and lots of eccentric calf raises. I'm doing the in the am and in the pm. Last 2 pm sessions were with a backpack with 10 lbs in it. Lots of supplementary stuff(core, weights, golf, gardening and kid chasing :) )

Quack - Congrats on the progress!

PM - That is an interesting observation. I ran in my frees on Saturday and it seemed to go well. I used the lunar glides yesterday and again today, but cut today's run short cuz the lower legs started feeling tweaky. I'll go back to the frees and see if that helps.

Over 50 - thanks for the follow up post. It is so useful to get your perspective as obviously you know exactly what I'm dealing with. I'm definitely on the mend, its just going to take some time and patience.

I've been thinking and evaluating about my training and mind set thus far and I think I'll be sharing some thoughts as to some conclusions in the near future. For now, though, it's time to get some rest. 5 am comes awful early.

Quack, I like that "nuclear option" phrase - sums up a lot of my own feelings. Great to hear you're on the mend.

Impossible Dream wrote:

When I started the thread in November of last year I weighed in at 190 + lbs. That represented a 30 lbs weight loss from December of 2009. At the time, I was preparing for the Las Vegas Marathon. I completed that event in 3:21 and some change basically just running to finish. Since the start of this thread I have lost an additional 20+ lbs and weigh in between 165 and 170 currently. Total weight loss since dec '09 is 50+ lbs.

I've run 3 races since the Vegas Marathon. A 5k in Feb in 18:22, a 5k in March in 16:42 and a 1/2 marathon in April in 1:18:09.

Next race if I can heal up in time will be June 11. As of now I have no specific aspiration for that race.

Impossible Dream, you had much success over six months. Congratulations. I checked the last few pages and saw the disappointed news that you've had a somewhat serious achilles setback.

Even with that setback, you are so far ahead of December 2009 that with your combination of drive, planning and ability, you'll be able to reach new heights from a better starting point. I can't help but think that when you are healed, starting at 165- rather than 190+ will help the entire process be easier for you, perhaps with a longer training period.

You should be proud not only of the 16:42 and the 1:18:09, but the many people who you helped engage more personally in this great sport. I suspect that for each person who followed and posted, there was one who followed and did not post.

Nice going with your successes. Hang in there till your next shot. It's coming, if you are patient. I've seen many patient people come back very strong from injury.

I know this thread has helped me. Maybe not so much from following the specifics that are discussed (especially the diet stuff - I still tend to eat whatever I feel like) but with motivation. And it's not just the motivation to keep running hard - it's the motivation to do some of the extras, to focus on the small stuff.

It may be 20 years late, but thanks in part to all of you I might just figure this running thing out yet. The next test is this Saturday in my local 5k. I don't feel like I've even vaguely trained properly for a 5k, but I'm expecting a good run anyway.

Impossible Dream and all others --

I've just wasted a huge amount of time at work reading this thread, but I wanted to reply and say how awesome this whole project is.

ID, I can't believe you've progressed as quickly as you have. I've really enjoyed reading the progression of your training and races. Great stuff

All other regular posters (PhysMech, eurodonkey, and others) - I feel like I've learned more about running in the past hour than I have in my whole life. I'm in a totally different league than all of you, both in age, gender, and talent (27 year old, female, 3:18 marathon PR), but from reading this, it seems like I'm doing pretty much everything wrong. I run every single training run entirely too fast, which has probably prohibited me from doing any quality speedwork. All good takeaways...

Btw, I'm also coming off Achilles issues, and I'll second other posters on swearing by eccentric calf raises and deep tissue massage (I looked up Achilles pressure points online and did it myself versus paying for an ART/chiro). I also did a TON of balance work and ankle exercises since I had some posterior tib tendon pain in tandem with the Achilles, which was annoying, but is now resolved.

Anyway, thanks for this thread, and keep up the good work. I'll be rooting for you!

I must say, even at the risk of being accused of pandering, how flattered and grateful I am for the posts from Practical Answer, VF and also a lurker. Having been mostly a lurker myself on letsrun prior to this thread I'll admit to being massively impresses at just how generous and kind so many letsrunners are.

Also, if you find a moment please do post a link to the Achilles pressure points info? Oh, and welcome to the thread. Please drop by often and contribute. By the way, 3:18 is nothing to sneeze at for a male or female!

ID, are the two pairs of shoes you mentioned the only ones you are currently training in? If so, I really think you need to get the most cushioned things you can find right now. For me, the Vomeros really unlocked my ability to put in the miles and a lingering achilles issue was one of my limiting factors. I'm not exactly sure what the real reason cushioning is so important for achilles strain, but I'm guessing we tense up our calfs more for shock absorption if less cushioning is there.

I'm pretty sure the Vomero's are the most cushioned Nike and maybe the Nimbus is the most cushioned Asics. Not sure of the other brands, but I remember how immediate and dramatic the difference was when I got the Vomero's. Another interesting thing about the Vomero is that it wears in the forefoot first, creating more of a heel lift as it wears down. I still occasionally wear my older pair that is worn down almost to the midsole in the forefoot for this very reason.

PM,

Tell me about the arch support in the vomero's. In shoes with stiff or high arch support, that can really cause problems for me. I have relatively wide and flat feet.

Thanks for the suggestion, btw.

Of course, nothing replaces trying them on, but I noticed the lack of arch and torsion support the first time I ran in them. And they are fairly wide also. But the cushioning was by far the softest I have ever tried, particularly in the forefoot (they have carbon rubber in the heel area and soft blown rubber in the forefoot, which wears fairly quickly). It turned out that was exactly what my legs needed to get my mileage up. I was having trouble with lingering achilles pain as well as a couple other impact related issues which have been reduced with the extra cushion.

The Vomero does not give much of anything in terms of motion control and you would have to add some kind of arch support if you needed it. But if you need cushion, they are really soft. Much softer than the Adistar Ride or Adistar Cushion that I had tried before that. I just got a pair of Asics Nimbus and they have the torsion control I was hoping for and are fairly soft. But nowhere near as soft as the Vomero.

PM,

I noticed there are several versions of the vomero. What version do you own?

They are pricey for the newest version at $130, but I might spring for the +5's which are on sale at the running warehouse for $80.

Thanks.