Soup to Nuts - Letsrun Train Me

I've had achilles issues in my forties and found that quitting running and just dedicating any exercise time to riding a road bike did the trick. No pain when riding, definite pain when attempting running or vigorous hiking. Maybe six weeks worth or so...with a day or two of pool running per week. Keeps your heart and lungs cranking. Once you let go of the runner inside....he will come back!

I agree with Will.

I must admit I just assumed you'd be doing a ton of calf work. The calf raises are pretty much standard and everyone I know with Achilles problems does them. A great friend of mine who is also 45 and consistently runs under 2:30 for the marathon lost a winter with Achilles trouble, and he built up to huge numbers of these as well as cycling and doing spinning classes. He's now fully recovered.

There is some debate over whether it's the 'eccentric' bit that really matters or whether it's just general calf strength and health, but who cares? It's the same exercise. The key point is that the tendon which goes with your calf is complaining, so try to get the calf as strong as an ox. Once it's handling a good volume, one can consider some very gentle functional/springy stuff (e.g. jog 20 meters on grass, NOT pound 80 miles on asphalt), as one has to re-educate the usual stretch reflex too.

I have a report somewhere with all the latest research on Achilles tendinopathy, published last fall; I'll see if I can find it and scan it for you.

I did them even after runs with sore achilles. I seldom check this thread though - so email me directly if you have any questions...I can't emphasize this exercise enough!

Will

Euro,

You would think calf work would be obvious to me, but sometimes I have a thick skull. Like a lot of runners (I suspect) I have naturally big and strong calves, so I've never given much serious thought to exercising them in addition to other stuff. Trust me, I'm starting to see the light.

FYI,

I've set up an email account for my letsrun friends:

runimpossibledream@gmail.com

There is another thread (concerning tendonitis of the iliopsoas) that was just on the message board the other day. I'm battling a nasty case of it due to a hip surgery I just had. There is a link I saw on on the thread that is to a website made by an orthopedist in D.C. who is GREAT with athletes. His name is Dr. Pribut. I live in NY but he was really generous and chatted on the phone with me for a few minutes regarding questions and concerns I had about my tendonitis and recovery. I'm about on week 7 with this issue and sometimes I feel like I'm healing and other times I don't. I realize your case is in your Achilles (which is different) but it's the same problem where it can be chronic. I'm leaving you the link above because it gives a ton of information and I think his website is a wonderful resource. Hopefully it might give you an idea or two you haven't come across.

Just posted you the article - hope it helps.

Harping back to an earlier topic, I finished a track workout at lunchtime, and my local supermarket had slashed the price on some fancy sports drinks with 'neuro...' in the name. I tried one and they have Acetyl-L-Carnitine, which PhysMech was talking about. Wow. I've been buzzing mentally for the last 10 hours.

Not sure yet if it's just being in full health again and getting a good speed session under my belt, or the neurotransmitter. I'll try it again next time I'm feeling extra stupid...

Got it Euro, thanks!

Good news, visited the doc today and his advice is that I can run as long as the pain is minimal. His recommended treatment is the eccentric calf exercises that have already been discussed here in the thread. I'm pretty excited that he said running was ok. I'm going to be sensible and build back into it slowly and supplement with cross training.

I'll be doing a lot of calf raises. The doc recommended a therapist for what would be a consultation for stuff to do on my own. The schedule is pretty tight though for me and the therapist, so I might just rely on some googling and advice from this thread. The basic eccentric calf raises seem straightforward, buy there may be some variations? Or perhaps a sequence or recommended progression?

Anyway, I think I'm on the right track now after floundering a bit.

I feel very grateful that folks in this community (letsrun) have been so generous with time and advice. Thanks all!

BPM18,

First, congratulations on making the decision to be a runner again! That is fantastic. I am anxious to hear how things progress for you.

My apologies for taking so long to reply to your question. Here goes. When I started the thread in November of last year I weighed in at 190 + lbs. That represented a 30 lbs weight loss from December of 2009. At the time, I was preparing for the Las Vegas Marathon. I completed that event in 3:21 and some change basically just running to finish. Since the start of this thread I have lost an additional 20+ lbs and weigh in between 165 and 170 currently. Total weight loss since dec '09 is 50+ lbs.

I've run 3 races since the Vegas Marathon. A 5k in Feb in 18:22, a 5k in March in 16:42 and a 1/2 marathon in April in 1:18:09.

Next race if I can heal up in time will be June 11. As of now I have no specific aspiration for that race.

Thanks for the question and please do check in to let me know how you're doing.

That's great news that you are able to get back to running ID. It's been enough of a layoff that you will have some backsliding to recover from, but I guarantee you will still be ahead of where you started back in Nov. No goals/no expectations sounds like a good plan for the race in June, assuming you are able to run it.

From my end of things, I need to take a page out of your book and get organized about my overall training. I'm currently in one of those "middle of nowhere" unfocused times - a 5k in a week and a half, an Ultra in 2 months and a hell of a lot of yard work and golf to interfere with training.

I am not qualified to recommend different variations of calf raises, but I'd suggest starting off in the same very careful way you used the treadmill. We have to bear in mind that if you stress things too much, it might be 48 hours before there is a reaction.

I would suggest doing the same thing every day for 2-3 days, then stepping up if there is no problem. You could start with as little as 1 mile slowly (treadmill or grass), and if you can repeat it and there is no reaction 48 hours later, go for 2 miles on day 3 or 4. Keep the pace slow (e.g. treadmill again?) and by all means take a rest day every 3-4 days if you wish. Once you can do, say, 3 miles gently most days with no reaction, we could think about introducing some careful drills on grass while the kids play ball, and reintroducing the 'stretch reflex'.

Similarly, with the calf raises, if the 3x10 is comfortable after 2-3 days then add some more reps.

We also want to try and keep some aerobic base. Since you're doing eccentric exercise anyway, I'd give it a week to be sure there is no reaction, then go for the treadmill 'hill walking', but again in small doses. So maybe a week down the road you'd be doing something like (1 mile jog flat, 1 mile steep walk up, 1 mile jog flat) on the treadmill each day.

Good luck!

By the way, just to make you jealous - the scales showed 70.6kg this morning, just a pound and a quarter away from my target! I'm not running that many miles but the faster 5k pace work lately (plus vaguely sensible eating) seems to be sending all the right signals.

Hey Dream,

Me, 54 yr old male. I had battled Achilles pain on rt leg only for 4 years starting at 49 while training to qualify for Boston for first time in 10 yrs. My pain and swelling was right at the insertion point of the calcaneous(sp?) bone.

I went to experts in orthopedics, podiatry, physical therapy, massage therapy, chiropractic, ... over this time. I went to the best in my large metropolitan area, driving 70 miles to a renowned world class podiatrist who takes runners only.

None of it worked, long term. Iontophoresis(sp?) treatments sure brings the swelling and aggravation down fast. Nonetheless, return to running, getting even to just 20 mpw would bring back the problems. Frankly the eccentric calf excercises may have helped, no where near being a cure.

What worked for me?

1) running form changes. including the necessary gradual change to minimal shoes. I found a great coach (after trying a not as great one) on my form. This alone got me back to 30 mpw. However, at around this point, the symptoms would start to recurr. (I was dedicated to NOT running in pain anymore, so I would back off.)

2) Deep tissue work from an ART trained chiropractor. As other posters will note, this is VERY deep tissue work. First sessions very painful. worked on everything from the achilles area through my hips. Most focus was in calf. After 8-12 weeks, and then gradual build up past 30 mpw, I successfully trained for my first marathon in 3 years.

Since a recovery phase from that race, I am now enjoying running and marathon training more than ever. I still have to manage the condition. A lot of self massage with various techniques and gizmos. However, I am running and making that first walk to the bathroom in the morning PAIN FREE.

This is what worked for me, your mielage may vary.

Hi all,

Quick update. By my own estimation things are going very well. I'm progressing essentially as Euro suggested in his last post. Short , easy runs and lots of calf raises and some regular supplementary stuff.

Over 50,

Welcome to the thread and thanks for sharing your story. Although, it sounds like your Achilles issue was much worse than I'm going through, your success is inspiring. Please check in regularly and contribute as I would certainly welcome that.

PM,

I have been taking the osteo biflex. I'm sure it's helping with the recovery.

Have a great weekend all, I'm off for an evening run (3 miles :) ) and some glorious spring weather!

Just checking I can post, as I got some server errors on the last few tries...

Hi all,

I'm not even going to attempt modesty ;-)

First track race (excluding my DNF/pacemaking exploits last week) of the season: Surrey County Championships, 5000m - indeed, my first track 5000 in 20 years, and I think my second ever. I got third overall in 15:36! I even got to stand on a podium and do the medal thing ;-)

I'm quite happy with that, as the two leaders are 14:30 guys when fit and no one else in the race was 'old'. We had strong winds and somebody kindly took us out in 74/lap pace for 5 laps, after which the leaders got bored and took off to do some real work. My 'pacemaker' lasted another three laps, and I had to do about 4 laps on my own in the wind. I think there's another 15sec there if I get into a race all the way to the finish.

Next up is a possible 3000m on Wednesday night (if the kids don't bring home too much homework), and a 5 mile race on Sunday. After that it will be 1500s, so I'm going to start 8/15 pace work next week.

Moral of the story: no dream is impossible - and dieting certainly helps!

Euro,

That is absolutely fantastic!! Wow!

As you know you're exactly where I want to get to. Keep setting the bar high for the rest of us to chase.

Wow! Euro, that sounds like a huge jump to me. I forgot, how old are you right now? Putting some figures into the calculator, but that's going to be a world class time, right?

What were the biggest factors in your training leading up to this?

Hey impossible dream-- what a nauseating, pandering post--do the work yourself you pussy.

Buffalo Billy wrote:

Hey impossible dream-- what a nauseating, pandering post--do the work yourself you pussy.

People like you are not welcome on this thread. If you had read it, you'd be considerably in awe of the work ID has already done up to his recent injury.