Soup to Nuts - Letsrun Train Me

Interesting article, Euro, thanks for sharing.

The training benefit of those work outs obviously really wouldn't be evident for April 16, but they might help for April 30. It might also be a benefit to incorporate some of that into Phase II in May.

VF Runner wrote: It was nice to have her there, but I was thinking the conversation was going to kill me.

:)

During a recent hill work out I did on my treadmill, my 5 year old boy came down and wanted to watch me run. He kept chatting it up with me and I just had to smile and tell him, "Daddy really can't talk much when I'm on the treadmill."

Phew. End of a rough 36 hours and I need to moan.... I got over my bug and was nicely rested and hoping to run a good 5000m last night. Only problem was wife had a bad cold, so I was hoping kids would behave and I could duck out for 2 hours in the evening. Then BOTH schools called home at midday to say the kids had this bug that's going around, wife brought them home, I had to rush home to babysit all 3 of them, and to cut a long story short got very little sleep last night. The poor French student staying with us was wondering what strange circle of hell he had ended up in. Then I had to rearrange a huge meeting today and somehow deal with slipping customer deadlines, get stuff to and from schools (vacation starts today) etc etc. Massively behind with work. Attempted tempo+hills on the way home, struggled through 2.5miles @ 5:50 pace, then gave up on the first hill rep feeling ridiculously weak and dizzy in the head.

Hopefully the whole family is now on the mend, except that I'm bound to catch the cold next. But looking back, the whole of March in my training diary is one big random mess of half-sessions and interruptions - just when I should have had a really solid month.

...

ID, reading what you posted, it seems like you're saying you won't take an easy week afterwards if you do the second HM. I think a race that big should warrant a recovery week - although there is no reason why you shouldn't use that week to start easing into your first track reps.

I also don't think time is particularly short. You are doing hills already and well out of Phase I by some measures, and Jack D says 12 weeks is plenty for 2 phases.

I could write a book on approaches to track sessions, but I suspect it will be better for a night's sleep...

Euro,

First, I feel for you man. We've had several similar days to the one you've been going through the last 36 hours and I can very much relate. Sorry to hear its been so tough, but I'm certain you'll get through it.

As to training. I think I'm taking an easy week starting April 17 whether I decide to run the HM on April 30 or not, so that's why I'm not accounting for an easy week after April 30. Honestly, if I do run that April 30 HM, I think I'll likely have some easy recovery days, but not a whole week. Maybe restrict the work outs to just one(hill repeats) and do mileage. Obviously, I'm up for convincing on a second easy week. :) I must say that I am hedging my bets on that second HM based on the April 16 effort (finish time, how I feel, etc.)

Get some sleep, you deserve it.

I used to have that same problem when I used a running stroller. We live in a hilly area and for some reason it was always on the uphills that she would try to talk to me. Maybe its because I would slow down.

She did stay quiet in the 5k race (on packed gravel no less) where I was able to run 18:31 with the stroller. The best however was the very first race I did with her. Nearing the 2 mile point (also as I closed in on another guy probably about 5 years younger) she just started giggling and laughing. I just knew I had to pass him right away. Luckily I was able to keep going and he faded.

VF Runner wrote:

where I was able to run 18:31 with the stroller

That's good going!

We have a huge network of weekly 5ks here (www.parkrun.com) which will probably hit the USA soon. There is an unofficial 'stroller record' and you must be pretty close to it. My kid's history teacher has done high 18s with his stroller, and he has national XC champion and a 2:13 marathoner back in the day.

I tried to organise a Christmas 800 race with strollers, but only one guy showed up. That's REALLY fun - great fundraising idea for schools etc...

So, everyone slept, kids back at school, wife getting some rest, I no longer feel like I'm getting a cold (at least not today anyway), and I just did a good session: jog to gym, 1 hour group circuit, 1 set each of 6x75kg squats and 6x55kg cleans (10% below max, just so I can remember how), jog to hill, 6 x 100m steep sprints, jog back. Will attempt to run 7.5 home tonight. I'm dreading doing my March summary though!

Euro,

Glad things are back on track and that you're feeling better.

Damn, if nothing else Euro, you're strong as an ox with those lifts!

So naturally as an OCD(Obsessive/Compulsive) runner, I'm thinking ahead to my training past this cycle and into May. At that point, I'm no longer just a runner, I'm a 5k runner until August. I think the biggest key in May and perhaps for the whole summer season for me is speed. I don't really think I have it and in order to start scratching the surface of my goals, I'm going to need it.

In my youth, I wasn't a blazing speedster but I had adequate speed. I ran 54 seconds at age 18 in an open 400m and in college I could fairly readily finish a fast set of 400's in 60 seconds. I think getting back to that type of ability is a key for me.

To this end, I'm also thinking that racing some under distance stuff could be really helpful. Where I'm going to find under distance races is the big question. If this year I was able to run in the 4:40's or so for a mile that would be solid.

Tentatively, I think my time goal for the August 6 race is sub 16:30... Although I'm sure to adjust that goal as I do track sessions and races in June and July.

Impossible Dream wrote:

Damn, if nothing else Euro, you're strong as an ox with those lifts!

Thank you! I'm gambling that after a few weeks of hills I can do 85 for a PR, and then I'll be happy. Our national coaches say good m.d. guys should be able to do to sets of 6 legal squats at 1.5x bodyweight, and good long distance guys should be on 1.0 x bodyweight.

This is why I'm into strength for runners. I was weak as a kitten and injury prone in my youth, but our club track coach persuaded me 2 years ago this was the way to run faster (i.e. top speed) and it seems to be working - I can pop out a 30-sec 200 at the end of a long session in midwinter now, when 30 was an absolute all-out sprint in summer 3 years ago, and I get way less aches and pains from running. I knew Seb Coe lifted a ton, but only found out recently that Paula Radcliffe does too and that the gym work was what took her to the Marathon WR.

Embarrassingly, another thread last night had some 'standards' for athletic types and in the last 2 years I have progressed from 'untrained' to 'novice' by weightlifting standards!

Well, I mentioned that I tweaked my calf sometime last week and it really hasn't been getting better nor is it really getting worse. So, in the interest of it getting better, I skipped my run this morning. I'll still have over 70 miles in for the week and there's outside chance I'll run 80, so still a solid week of training.

The calf might actually be a high achilles issue, I'm not sure. It's kind of hard to determine where the tightness and discomfort is really coming from. Oddly enough, it bothers me much more after getting up from sitting long periods and hardly bothers me at all when I'm running. I've been icing, massaging and stretching every chance I get.

A short March Summary:

322 miles run.

29 days running.

16 double days.

45 total sessions in the month. Shortest 2 miles, longest 15 (several times).

2 mile time trial in 10:49 and 5k on a downhill course in 16:42.

I'm happy with that month.

Some thoughts on some upcoming sessions:

- Scheduled for hills tomorrow. I'm thinking of doing 10 regular hill repeats at a moderate pace followed by 10 short steep hill sprints to work all aspects of quads etc. Then I'll do leg weights on Sunday night, but probably a much lighter session to account for the harder hill session on Saturday.

- I'm debating on my next quality session next week between the work out Malmo recommended (generally) of 5 min on/ 5 min off for 70 minutes versus doing 1600 m cruise intervals with 1 min jogs in between. I'm leaning towards cruise intervals for a couple reasons. First, I thinks its more in line with what I'm looking for in a harder work out at this point and more closely approximates the stresses of a HM. Second, I did these a few weeks back and I was unsatisfied with how I conducted the work out. I kind of want to go back and conquer this work out, not necessarily with faster splits, but a better state of mind and maybe a few extra reps.

Thoughts?

Impossible Dream wrote:

Thoughts?

Mostly thinking 'I envy you!'. That's a really solid month's training to have under your belt.

I wouldn't do strength stuff on two successive days. Both the fast hill sprints and the heavy weights require fresh legs.

10 sprints is a lot, too. Much better to do 5 good ones (10 sec max). There is an argument for doing them first but I doubt it matters too much.

One possibility is to do the hill workout, which is pretty tough, then do a few heavier weights exercises back home afterwards. That way, on Sunday you just do an easy run.

March summary:

258 miles

26 days run, 5 off (3 sick, 2 too busy)

6 gym/conditioning sessions

7 quality sessions

1 10k race

4 small doses of hill work

Probably just enough to maintain fitness, but I have somewhat de-trained and lost my hardwon ability to run 70mpw, and didn't get in nearly as much hill work as I hoped. Somehow stuff always seems to happen in March.

Hopefully next month will be better. The 'mad patch' at work should ease in about 10 days, but travelling is going to make doubles tricky so it will be low mileage for 2 more weeks. Maybe I should experiment with a bit of tempo most days - I'll have hotel treadmills to play with.

eurodonkey wrote:

10 sprints is a lot, too. Much better to do 5 good ones (10 sec max). There is an argument for doing them first but I doubt it matters too much.

One possibility is to do the hill workout, which is pretty tough, then do a few heavier weights exercises back home afterwards. That way, on Sunday you just do an easy run.

That might be the route.

I can see the argument being that you want the freshest legs possible to do the sprints. So following a good warm up, 5 steep hill sprints (the hill is about 40 yards and used for sledding by the kids when it snows.) Then a shake out jog (mile or so) and then 10 by hill repeats... Same one I did 45 second repeats several weeks ago, but I'm not planning to time them and I'm going to run at a much easier effort rather than how I did them last time, which was pretty much like an interval work out.

Completed my circuit work out at lunch today, minus the hops because the lateral stress was definitely going to put stress on my little injury. I've got to be honest, that circuit is the physically hardest 20 or so minutes of my week.

Embarrassingly, another thread last night had some 'standards' for athletic types and in the last 2 years I have progressed from 'untrained' to 'novice' by weightlifting standards!

Could you link me to this thread please? I looked but couldn't see it, sorry if it's just me missing the obvious though!

Impossible Dream wrote:

I can see the argument being that you want the freshest legs possible to do the sprints. So following a good warm up, 5 steep hill sprints (the hill is about 40 yards and used for sledding by the kids when it snows.)

{/quote]

Sounds like a good plan. You will probably feel really good on the longer reps after this.

[quote]

Completed my circuit work out at lunch today, minus the hops because the lateral stress was definitely going to put stress on my little injury. I've got to be honest, that circuit is the physically hardest 20 or so minutes of my week.

Good call. I did my second group circuit yesterday; that sneaky instructor changed it all around a bit so I have loads more sore muscles now, albeit different ones! He gets us doing a whole minute of high knees, star jumps, burpees...I have never left such big sweat puddles on a gym floor before. Apart from being a monster core workout I think I'm re-learning to keep pushing for another 10-15sec in the face of fatigue. I just hope I can tough it out on my own the next two weeks!

I can't see the thread (it was something like 'how many pull-ups is good?) but here's the standards it led to...

http://www.lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html

The 'muscular endurance' ones are kind of imaginable and I guess drawn from many sports, but the weights ones are for a population of competitive lifters.

Probably a topic for future discussion, but I'm starting to think about adding drills to my weekly routine, as suggested by Pete Magill and many others.

Obviously I'm short on time as it is, so I guess I'll be looking for the most efficient way to pull off adding these.

I was going to ask about time. How long can you reasonably take on your Saturday sessions and Sunday runs? And as it warms up, could you see yourself getting outdoors (e.g. local track Tuesday night) one day per week? Do you have a sports field or some grass close enough to work (for lunch hours), or to pop out in the evening if you get 30min? All these things are key planning questions for the summer schedule.

You may, of course, be one of those strange individuals whose neuromuscular system can fire at 95% before breakfast. I'm not, sadly...

I'd say that was a pretty high quality work out this morning with the 5 steep hill sprints and then 10 hill reps. I enjoyed myself but I can tell my legs are cooked. Tomorrow I'll drive to park and do my long run all on a bark chip loop at an easy pace.

Well, it seems I haven't rankled my better half too much by finishing my weekend sessions as late as 9:30 or 10.... Later if I let her know of my plans. Of course, I'm used to getting out of bed a little after 5 am, so I've got a pretty good chunk of time.

I'm looking at seeing if that is feasible. It's more a work issue than a home issue. As I'm not a clock puncher I generally have to be there when I have to be there. This time of the year, the earlier part of the week puts demands on my time at work. As we get deeper in to summer and especially the latter part of the year, not so much.

Definitely. The track 3 blocks from my house of coure has a grass infield. And, there is a large athletic field as part of the same facility that is only 2 blocks from my house.

Quick weekly summary:

79 miles total in 10 sessions.

2 quality work outs , 7 mile tempo avg pace 6:16 and a combo hill work out with 5 short hill sprints and then 10 longer hill repeats.

I'm happy with the week.