Congratulations on a great race...
So you ran 18:22 five weeks ago, and something arguably worth 17:10 yesterday. That's 12-14 sec improvement per week. I'd be over the moon at that myself....
Congratulations on a great race...
So you ran 18:22 five weeks ago, and something arguably worth 17:10 yesterday. That's 12-14 sec improvement per week. I'd be over the moon at that myself....
Hey thanks VF and Euro!
That is the right perspective to have Euro and I agree. I am very happy with my progress.
I should be honest with myself also, though, when evaluating my progress and training. The race yesterday really wasn't well executed especially from a mental stand point and that started in the warm up. For some stupid reason and this happened with my last 5k as well, I'm more nervous than I really ought to be. Perhaps I'm putting to much pressure on myself, but I think the nerves have effected me physically pre race as I just don't feel at all like myself. In other words, I've felt awful pre race the last 2 times out. In the 18:22 race, though, I was relatively strong mentally through the race.
Yesterday, as I said before, I got out a little to fast and then when I started to hurt a bit in the second mile I was feeling sorry for myself. I kept chugging along, but it wasn't agressive racing like what I expect of myself and it wasn't until well into the third mile that I calmed myself down enough to find a running rhythm and feel some what normal.
I'll post later with a weekly summary and a short little report on this mornings run which was so epically bad its actually comical :) .
Maybe that should be EPIC-LY bad... I can't spell this morning either. :)
Well, my week hasn't been much to write about. No run on Monday (my only windows was lunchtime and my wife surprised me with a birthday lunch), the week got crazier and crazier at work leaving me squeezing half-sessions into gaps between meetings, and I got a stomach bug this morning. A mere 53 miles. And my weight has crept up a pound or so despite being quite careful with the food. I hope next week is better...
I have to agree with Euro, you should be thrilled with that improvement.
Let me give my takes on your race experience and nervousness also. Your fast pace at the beginning would actually not be the wrong feeling if you were in race shape. Race shape means you have done the work at that level to let you handle the normal weakness you start feeling after the first mile in a 5k. At this stage, we just don't have the proper anaerobic work done yet. We can get to the mile mark without really breathing all that hard, but once the anaerobic weakness sets in, the spiral is quick and severe. So let's not start thinking we don't have the race toughness any more. Trust me, that's not it.
The nervousness is just your subconscious talking to you. It knows you aren't race ready for this level yet. Plus, with only a couple races into your comeback, it's like freshman year all over again.
BTW, my 10k was a 35:20 and I felt great. Comeback PR by 54 seconds. It's so funny how quickly things can change, especially coming off a cold. My simulated long run/marathon race last weekend was sort of demoralizing and I cut it short after 20 miles, feeling sick, tired, and like I had arthritis in my legs. It was even hard to tell if my plan of energy gel consumption was working, but I think it was. The hardest part of taking gels in a race is the swallowing without inhaling the stuff. It's almost impossible when you are still coughing up stuff from having a cold.
PM,
Thanks so much for that post. That is exactly what I needed, some logically proper perspective. For some odd reason, I just hadn't thought of it that way.
Way to bounce back from a tough run with a solid 10k!!
Euro,
Sorry to hear that you had a tough week. It wasn't stellar for me either. Let's all have a better training week this week.
PhysMech wrote:
The nervousness is just your subconscious talking to you. It knows you aren't race ready for this level yet. Plus, with only a couple races into your comeback, it's like freshman year all over again.
It may also be that the downhill just suckered you into going off too fast. You have to do a LOT of work with eccentric braking running down hills.
I have been generally dissatisfied with my races for most of the 2-3 years of my comeback so far. But I think this has something to do with running mostly aerobically. If you're only good for 10mmol of lactate and you used to hit 20mmol at the end of peak races, you'll only be hurting half as much as you remember, so you think "why aren't I hammering myself like I used to?". You also don't have all your team mates, medals to chase etc etc. Get into a team race with some friends and trust me, you'll run harder!
PhysMech wrote:
BTW, my 10k was a 35:20 and I felt great. Comeback PR by 54 seconds. ... It's almost impossible when you are still coughing up stuff from having a cold.
Congratulations, that is really motoring...
I've read a few scary stories on this board about people training through colds (there's a guy on the Masters thread who kept up 110+mpw when sick), and I really don't agree with it. I'm sure you get better faster if you rest, and pretty sure that the body does not adapt well after training if it has other stresses. If I have a mild one I'll keep plodding to work and back, or hit the gym for a change, short route), but I'll NEVER do a hard session if it's gone to my chest or if I'm feeling below par.
I remember a study back in college where they pointed out just how close to zero your white cells drop after an exhausting training session. I think you're just giving the virus a big red carpet to walk down.
One son and wife have colds right now so I am crossing my fingers!
Ok, another potpourri....
- A short weekly summary. I ran 69 total miles last week (slight miscalculation in my Masters thread total) in 8 sessions (fewest sessions in weeks and weeks), including the 5 x 1600 m cruise interval work out and the down hill 5 k in 16:42.
- Just so we're clear, I am very happy with my progress. I'm being a little nitpicky, though. :)
- My legs are feeling pretty beat up today still. Running downhill faster than I've run at any grade in years and years and years I guess will do that. Prior to my race, I had a little issue with my right calf tweaking in kinda of the middle, deep in the tissue and also the right anterior shin being tight and sore. That issue is still bothering me a bit and now in both shins. I iced after the race and again last night and then this morning. I'll likely throw an ice bag on the shin here at work a couple of times today.
- Skipped the heavy leg weight work out again for the 2nd week in a row. Sorry, Euro, but I wanted to be able to walk today :)
- Ok, a short account of the awful run yesterday. Let me preface this by saying I brought it on myself because I ate like an idiot on Saturday... Burger and fries for lunch... Pizza for dinner... and glutonous portions. Even though I went through my normal morning routine on Sunday morning (coffee, small breakfast, successful trip to the restroom) my stomach and bladder bothered me the whole run to the point of the absurd. When I woke up, it had snowed the night before but the roads looked wet but otherwise fine. My plan was to drive to the starting area for my upcoming HM, run the first 10 miles of the course and then run home. By the time I got up to the starting area, it had started to snow so hard, there were blizzard conditions. But, true to my OCD mentality, I parked the car anyway and off I went. No sidewalk for the first 1/2 mile, so running cross country in snow. Then when I did get to the sidewalk, it not only was covered in snow from the storm, but also with spray from the snow plows. Needless to say, my feet and ankles were soaked within the first mile. I managed a 12 miler, but that was cutting the run short.
- My eating habits have been really good and Saturday was an outlier, just FYI.
- I'm going to try and play it smarter this week. If I'm up for it, I'm going to do up to an 8 mile tempo tomorrow, but I can definitely see putting that off until Wednesday. Reading Daniels, he recommends adding around 15 seconds per mile to your prescribed tempo pace for runs of around 45 minutes. So the plan will be to start out at around 6:20 pace and then run comfortably hard and it might be a slight progression type run, but I probably won't try to get any sub 6's in there.
- I'm definitely going to do a circuit on Thursday and a hill work out on Saturday this week.
- My wife announced to me yesterday she was ready to find a 5k and sign up, which I'm all for. Surprisingly, she said she wanted me to run with her, as in pace her. I don't mind a bit, but I hope that doesn't back fire and she gets annoyed with me. We've never run together before.
- I'm celebrating a birthday on Wednesday. The big 4 - 1 !
Ok, enough with the stream of conscious post.
Hope you're all having a great day!
Impossible Dream wrote:
- Skipped the heavy leg weight work out again for the 2nd week in a row. Sorry, Euro, but I wanted to be able to walk today :)
I just wanted to say that's a good call. This is the least important session of the week, and you just did a hard downhill race. I'd have shortened the Sunday run too!
The problem with heavy leg strength work is that it always interferes and there's never a good time; yet if you don't do it for weeks, you'll lose some.
If the Thursday lunchtime circuits are working well, and you're tired on Sunday night, then you might find it makes sense to do a VERY small amount of weights on Monday night to keep things half a week apart: do your core stuff then 1-2 sets of 4-6 reps of the main exercise. Personally I don't mind doing tempos with slightly tired leg muscles.
Lately I've found it really hard to fit this in myself. My fallback plan is to head out to the bench in the garden after one of my main sessions, and do a set of 10 single-leq squats on each leg. (I can do 2-3 x 12 reps with 10kg med ball in the gym, but 1 x 10 reps x 4kg (2 light dumbells for balance) after a session). Throw in 1 set each of pressups and chins (as many as possible) and it's all done in under 5 minutes, and hopefully I won't lose any strength that week.
This is one more reason for the occasional easy week. When you drop off the miles 30% it's easy to get in a couple of good weights sessions and a quality circuit and you'll feel better for it.
Thanks for that Euro. Good advice.
I decided I needed one more recovery day this morning, so I did an easy 9.5 this morning instead of the tempo, which I'm planning for tomorrow.
Did not do a second session yesterday. Instead, I iced both shins and sat on my butt after a long and busy day at work. Good decision as I felt a lot better on my run this morning.
Tonight, I'll do easy upper body weights in addition to my normal core routine and a short run on the treadmill.
Thought I'd share that I've been studying the local running scene a bit since I'm now part of it. The usual top dog is a former collegian All American and 10,000m olympic trials qualifier. He doesn't always win, though. (Let that sink in for a second) The top masters guy is an age group American record holder who currently occupies the same age group as Pete Magill (let that sink in for a second). There are a gaggle of guys within 15 seconds of him. Needless to say, it is arguably one of the top local yokel running scenes in the country. I guess my point is, I couldn't hope for much better competition than what I've got to push me towards my goals, so I'm fortunate for that.
Chatting with a masters guy who finished about 40 seconds ahead of me on Saturday, it sounds like they've got a group doing regular Tuesday track sessions. So I might have to look into that come May and see if it fits into my plans.
Hope all are having a great day!
Euro,
I think its worth noting that my normal core routine has a fair amount of leg strengthening elements. Obviously not harder or heavier, but I think in addition to working my core, I get a maintenance effect for my legs, especially in my quads and hamstrings.
Ok, started my B-Day celebration today by completing a 7 mile (11.2 k, actually) tempo on the track this morning.
1600 m splits were as follows:
6:22
6:23
6:19
6:17
6:16
6:12
6:04
Average around 6:16.
I've been thinking that some of my previous tempo stuff might have been a smidge fast for my fitness level. Doing some more research in Daniel's book, it turns out he prescribes adding time for longer tempo runs. Specifically, he recommends a pace of 6:14 for 45 minute tempo runs at a fitness level slightly higher than mine, so I'm thinking I'm just right running 6:16's.
Thoughts on my training schedule going forward after the HM... I'm thinking that if I end up running the April 30 HM, then I'll have 14 weeks until my peak race on August 6. If I don't run it, then 15 weeks after an easy week after April 16. I've been in an extended base phase where the emphasis is on aerobic conditioning and threshold training. Going forward, my phase breakdown could look something like this:
Phase II - 5 or 6 weeks starting either April 24 or May 1. Primary training emphasis would be rep training with hill repeats and or faster repeats of 200 to 400 m on the track.
Phase III - 6 weeks starting June 5. Primary training emphasis would be long/hard interval training.
Phave IV - 3 weeks starting July 17... Peak phase where I'll reduce mileage a bit, cut back on some of the intensity and essentially maintain fitness for best performance on August 6.
Likely incorporated at the end of phase II and III would be an easier transition week. As Daniel's prescribes, there would be secondary and even a third training emphasis during these periods, but the focus during the phases would be as stated.
Thoughts on that general plan?
Happy Birthday!
Will reply on the rest later...
Impossible Dream wrote:
Ok, started my B-Day celebration today by completing a 7 mile (11.2 k, actually) tempo on the track this morning.
Do you realise how weird this makes you sound by normal human standards? ;-)
Your plan sounds very sensible. Try to find out what the other guys do on the track if you can so that can be worked in if appropriate..
I'll try to post a bit more later tonight - having a crazy day at home and work.
eurodonkey wrote:
Do you realise how weird this makes you sound by normal human standards? ;-)
Yeah! :) But of course that's why I post on letsrun, where a statement like that doesn't even make folks blink.
eurodonkey wrote:
Your plan sounds very sensible. Try to find out what the other guys do on the track if you can so that can be worked in if appropriate..
Funny you should mention that, I was just chatting with my wife regarding that exact topic this morning. It would be nice to have someone to pace off of. It definitely would make the harder stuff mentally easier. The fella I was chatting with this past weekend (who beat me by 40 seconds) said they did their track work on Tuesdays. I'll definitely follow up with them and see if its feasible to incorporate that into my program.
Totally off topic, the business unit I'm in charge of is setting sales records for the month of March! So, that is a nice birthday gift.
But, it does mean longer days at work, so I understand where you're coming from Euro. Keep your head above the water friend!
eurodonkey wrote:
Impossible Dream wrote:Ok, started my B-Day celebration today by completing a 7 mile (11.2 k, actually) tempo on the track this morning.
Do you realise how weird this makes you sound by normal human standards? ;-)
Birthdays are about doing what we enjoy. I got to spend about 3 hours of mine a few years ago spread over the boroughs of New York. Kinda nice having 2 million people cheer for your birthday. :-)
I'll second the fact that your plan sounds pretty logical.
I had a good speedwork session last night despite being only 2 days removed from a pretty aggressive 20 on Sunday. 5x600 in 1:59,2,2,2,1:55 on a cold windy track. Euro - you were right, my legs and speed do seem to be coming around quickly now after an extended period of higher mileage. My marathon is on April 16th, so I have definitely started to taper.
VF,
Nice work out. That's speedy!
OK, I might get 15min surf time to unwind tonight...
Saw this on another thread, relevant to half marathons.
Great workout! 2:00 is good, and dropping 5sec on the last one must be really satisfying.