If properly coached, the average relatively fit college male could run a ___ 8K

I am coaching at a first year program right now, and we have some guys who are brand new to competitive running. The guys that started within the last 2 months are running 36-38. By 5 months they should be able to run under 34. They hadn't really been runners before, maybe doing an easy jog of 2-3 miles a couple times per week, so I think they fit the criteria.

Python wrote:

I would not go lower than 32 (6:24 pace).

For the first few weeks, they will run a few days per week, less than 5 mi at a time, and at 8-10 min pace (9 min avg?).

I think you have a very optimistic idea of what "average relatively fit" means. I know people who play sports and ride bikes for long distances, but can't run more than a mile without dropping and couldn't get down to a 9 min/mile pace if there were being chased by tigers.

usaxcrunner753 wrote:

I am a slightly above average fit male (23 yrs) and I can run under 32:00.

My PRs are:

5:05 mile

I have been running 30-50 miles a week for the last five years for fitness. I do not specifically do speed work, but I do try to give myself a work out and I have been getting progressively faster over the years.

I can not run a half mile at a 5:05 mile pace.

I really, really, really think you underestimate what "averagely fit" means.

I run at a pretty widely used trail near where I live. I pass a lot of people when I'm out running. I'm probably faster than 90% of the runners out there (obviously it varies day by day) and I'm slow as hell by your standards. These are people running 4-6 miles multiple days a week - which I think counts as relatively fit - and I am *smoking* them with my 8 minute miles.

Another Option wrote:

There are a lot of fit college males that will never run under 30 minutes. It has more to do with biomechanics. I have been coaching for nearly 30 years and am astounded at the number of teenage males that have extremely flat feet today. When they try to run they end up with severe shin splints, knee pain, ITBS, tendonitis around the ankles, etc.

Would it be possible for them to correct their biomechanical deficiencies through training? Maybe, but unlikely. I don't know of any training plan that corrects biomechanical deficiencies directly.

Practically, they could overcome some of these deficiencies with orthotic devices, but most people are not going to invest several hundred dollars to enable them to participate in an activity they associate with pain and discomfort.

WTF flat feet are a biomechanical deficiency these days? I love it. I work at a running store and hear all day how flat feet are bad for you and you need insoles and orthotics etc. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING FLAT FEET! It does not cause any of that crap you just mentioned. I have "collapsed arches" aka flat feet and run 60+ mpw in flats and I'm fine. Always been fine. Always will be fine.

A lot of it depends on weight. Some dude that bulked up at the gym in his late-teens and shifted into a heavy drinker in college (very common) would have trouble dropping the weight.

I'd say with 5 months of training:

5k: 21-24 minutes

8k: 40-45 minutes

With 3 years of consistent, uninterrupted training:

5k: 18-21 minutes

8k: 30-35 minutes

If the person was an athlete or has running talent after 3 years:

5k: 16-18 minutes

8k: 27-30 minutes

Whatever the answer don't ask Ryan Hall

To whoever who habitually responds with the one-word post "this:" Please stop. It is annoying and douchey.

DontFeedTheTroll wrote:

I really, really, really think you underestimate what "averagely fit" means.

I run at a pretty widely used trail near where I live. I pass a lot of people when I'm out running. I'm probably faster than 90% of the runners out there (obviously it varies day by day) and I'm slow as hell by your standards. These are people running 4-6 miles multiple days a week - which I think counts as relatively fit - and I am *smoking* them with my 8 minute miles.

Totally agree with this. I ran one season of HS XC and two of college XC; my PR was 32:16 off like 35-40 mi. a week (my 400/800 PRs were 54/2:03). I could crush most people at my college if they just trained for 5 months. I trained for years to get in the 33s. Yes I could have trained harder but I was busy, and unless we're assuming full-time training, I think 38-40 is much more accurate.

above average wrote:

I bet at 1/4 of college males have never run 5 miles continuously in their lives.

That's probably true, in the same way that it's true that McDonalds has sold more than 10 hamburgers.

I'd bet that 75% of college males have never run 5 miles continuously in their lives and I wouldn't be surprised if it was higher. I know people, thin people, who have *never* run a mile continuously.

There is a reason that the Couch to 5K program exists. For plenty of people the idea of running 3.1 miles WITHOUT STOPPING is amazing.

real life situation here:

I coach an athlete who is 6'4," 220lbs, and is a pitcher on the baseball team. He is also a former tight-end on the football team his freshman and sophomore year.

He came in last season running about 30mpw over the summer, and he ran low 29's at our conference meet. winning time was barely under 26' and won by a guy who went on to earn All American honors (d3). He broke 30' in 4 out of 6 races. First race was high 31's.

This summer, he turned 21 and put on quite a bit of weight. Oh, and he didn't run. he's struggling to get under 31'. I think in both scenarios, he is an "average fit" collegiate male.

32:30

urrytu wrote:

jamesandthetinypeach wrote:

This.

To whoever who habitually responds with the one-word post "this:" Please stop. It is annoying and douchey.

This!

I started running back in July. and ran 28:30 for the 8k(xc) by mid september. I was motivated but i consider myself pretty average. I think with good coaching most people can get under 30 or so.

I was going to review what I did, but I will skip that part except to say that in grad school I went from being generally in shape to running 2:52 4 months later (and I was a JV XC runner in high school). I am not representative and most here also not representative of what guys can do. Compare what I did with what Lance Armstrong did. He was much better than an average athlete in enormously better shape in general. He worked at running for 9 months with better care and assistance than our 5-month averagely fit guy. Then he ran a 2:58++, 15+ seconds a mile slower. Now Armstrong was a pretty good runner when he was 'the kid' doing triathlons (and winning a national title). How come he could only run that fast.I think that you will find that the number of 'natural' runners out there are relatively few in number and they can train up moderately easily and get reasonably fast. A ton of other people that are good athletes (e.g., Bike racing champions, top world tennis players, etc) that work hard and then run marathons in 3:00 (not often), 3:30 (more often), and over 4 hours (most often).

atrack wrote:

I started running back in July. and ran 28:30 for the 8k(xc) by mid september. I was motivated but i consider myself pretty average. I think with good coaching most people can get under 30 or so.

33:16

The correct answer is "n"

If properly coached, the average relatively fit college male could run an 8K.

Suck on that

middle professor wrote:

And then there is evidence.

Again, these data are from the 2009 feaster five 8K in Andover MA - a competitive running community.

Number of Olympic medallist that have come from Andover MA: 0

Number of Olympic medallist that have come from Los Angeles: too amny to count.

Which country America or Kenya?

a college coach wrote:

real life situation here:

I coach an athlete who is 6'4," 220lbs, and is a pitcher on the baseball team. He is also a former tight-end on the football team his freshman and sophomore year.

He came in last season running about 30mpw over the summer, and he ran low 29's at our conference meet. winning time was barely under 26' and won by a guy who went on to earn All American honors (d3). He broke 30' in 4 out of 6 races. First race was high 31's.

This summer, he turned 21 and put on quite a bit of weight. Oh, and he didn't run. he's struggling to get under 31'. I think in both scenarios, he is an "average fit" collegiate male.

This entire post can be debated forever, but most of the anecdotal evidence would make even a junior high science student shudder. In the case above, how can anyone call a college athlete (regardless of sport) "an average fitness level". Have any of you seen the slobs walking around the average college campus???? The average college student hasn't done any exercise in the last 4 years.