Jogger wearing headphones hit by cyclist

'Just like when driving you look ahead and anticipate the unexpected'

If someone did that driving you would crash right into them. You wouldn't run blindfold so you should not run with headphones on especially if you like to suddenly change direction knowing you are on a trail used by lots of people

Yeah maybe the cyclist could have given more room, gone slower (does anyone know approx speed?) or dodged quicker. It's still not their fault

Actually, I drive with my stereo up really loud all the time. What's the difference?

Bobby1 wrote:

Please explain how it is the cyclists fault. If a pedestrian walks in front of a car it's not the drivers fault, the same as a pedestrian who walks in front of a cyclist. I have called out to joggers wearing headphones but they don't hear me. They shouldn't be wearing headphones and need to pay attention to what they are doing.

I'm trying to type really slowly, because you cyclists are so stupid.

#1) The women was running on a trail that that was designed to be used by pedestrians;

#2) The trail was packed with people;

#3) She did not walk "in front" of the cyclist, SHE WAS USING THE TRAIL as it was meant to be used;

#4) The trail is not only for the use of cyclists, and everyone else deserving to die who are using the trail (translation "getting in front of the cyclists);

#5) It is not other people's job to hear you, it is YOUR job to not run into them;

You seem to suggest that if a truck plowed into your next caravan and killed 5 or 10 cyclists, a legitimate defense would be that he honked and none of you moved out of the way, i.e. you got "in front" of him, therefore it was "okay" for him to run over and kill you.

I have tried to type this really slowly. If you still don't get it, let me know and I'll type it again even more slowly than before.

The cyclist knocked her down, was the cause of her hitting her head, and was therefore the cause of her death.

Well then he shouldn't have been riding so fast. Come on over and I'll try it on you.

It wasn't "his" path of travel. It was and is a PUBLIC trail that was packed by pedestrians.

Well you fool, if a car or bus had knocked her down on the trail, then the driver would surely be in jail at this time, the same as the cyclist should be.

soulrunner wrote:

Dude, you're a clown. No need to bash cyclists. This was a sad case where there was a breakdown in etiquette by both parties. As a runner on crowded path you shouldn't make sudden turns. As a cyclist you should ride in a manner where you can control yourself if someone or something should cross your path. Just like when driving you look ahead and anticipate the unexpected. Neither of these happened and a tragedy occurred. Too much runner cyclist feuding going on here. If everyone is aware of their surrounding and acts in a predictable manner when sharing trails accidents like this could be prevented.

BINGO!

winner winner chicken dinner!

I cycle and run and without knowing the full details of this incident, I can tell tell you about a similar incident (no fatalities) that I witnessed on the Chicago Lakefront path.

I don't cycle on that path very often because of how crowded it gets and how oblivious people tend to be.

There was a girl riding a mountain bike going a reasonable speed. A runner was to her right, she called out that she was passing him and started to pass. Without even looking, the runner suddenly cut left. She was right on his left shoulder and braked hard, causing her to fall hard and skid across the path. I know because I was riding the other direction and had to brake hard and ditch off the path to avoid her. The runner kept going, didn't even stop. She was fine, but her bike was pretty messed up and needed some repair.

In this situation, the runner was clearly at fault. There was nothing the cyclist could have done differently. Had the timing been off by half a second, the runner could have been hit.

In general, I think people just need to be more aware and courteous on these multi-use trails. Cyclists shouldn't be riding so fast that they can't avoid accidents and runners need to look over their shoulders before changing their running lines. People with kids need to make sure their kids are acting predictable around the trail. Volleyball players need to learn to gather on the sand and not the path.

soulrunner wrote:

As a runner on crowded path you shouldn't make sudden turns.

If there were no psychopath cyclist assholes on the trail then that would not be a problem.

J.R. wrote:

You seem to suggest that if a truck plowed into your next caravan and killed 5 or 10 cyclists, a legitimate defense would be that he honked and none of you moved out of the way, i.e. you got "in front" of him, therefore it was "okay" for him to run over and kill you.

Good analogy actually. If, being honked at, the whole line suddenly u-turned in front of the truck, could we really blame the driver for being unable to break in time? Or would it just be a senseless tragedy? Both parties were using the road the way it was intended. So...?

fat American wrote:

Good analogy actually. If, being honked at, the whole line suddenly u-turned in front of the truck, could we really blame the driver for being unable to break in time? Or would it just be a senseless tragedy? Both parties were using the road the way it was intended. So...?

Agreed. I wouldn't blame him at all.

Now, if he were driving on a bike path and ran over a runner, then he would be entirely responsible.

No idea how fast the cyclist was going, so it seems like we are assuming a lot when we say the cyclist was going far too fast for the paved Katy Trail. As someone earlier posted, if you hit the pavement the wrong way with your head, it can cause a concussion, and in some cases, death.

The jogger, wearing headphones and not being aware of her surroundings is CLEARLY at fault here. I see it all the time in Austin. Running on the trail at 6:30 to 7 min mile pace can be VERY dangerous when some negligent, inconsiderate jogger decides to turn around on the trail at a moment's notice as runners getting an easy workout in try to pass.

Lesson: DON'T wear headphones on trails that are shared by a large number of people. This is inconsiderate, negligent, and completely irresponsible. You can easily harm yourself or others that are trying to pass you. If a driver cuts another driver off that is trying to pass, while texting on their cell phone, not looking at their mirrors, and having their music turned alllll the way up, is there any real question who is at fault? This is no different, and YES the cyclist was put in just as much danger, as hitting slow moving object can lead to an end-over-end fall from the seat, and be just as likely to seriously injure them in the neck and head as well.

When I'm running on a path near my house and a biker tells me they are passing, sometimes they are going at a fast enough speed and say it quiet enough that it doesn't quite register until they are right next to me. The lady may have heard it but everything happened too fast for her to avoid it.

That being said, I think it is a very bad idea for anyone running or biking to wear head phones.

I also think it would be a good idea if everyone took the stance that they have no idea what's going to happen when they are passing someone and try to prepare for something crazy to happen. Like when I'm running and a car only moves over slightly when there is nothing in the oncoming direction thinking that I have enough room to run in. Yeah, but what if I try to move over a little too and give the car room and end up tripping on a rock and fall into the road? Or when I'm driving down the road and pass little kids playing outside I slow down, because I want to be ready if one of them darts into the road. Or when I'm passing someone on a bike I make sure to slow down and give them enough room and have my bike ready to come to a stop ASAP.

get a clue... pedestrians have the right-of-way

you cyclist NEED to slow down to a safe speed as to avoid accidents

Well, my illiterate friend, thank you for pointing out the obvious. Now this thread is at a resolution.

Weak sauce. And you can't know whether the cyclist was riding too fast.

You can't know that, either. Troll much?

You should be in dunce prison.

Title should read: Letsrun poster with common sense doesn't argue with idiots on a message board.

soulrunner wrote:

As a runner on crowded path you shouldn't make sudden turns.

J.R. wrote:

[quote]If there were no psychopath cyclist assholes on the trail then that would not be a problem.

Nope, as a fast runner, if your jogger arse turned like that in front of me then you'd be knocked down, too.

FortWorthRunner wrote:

As a side note, thats what is great about running. Shirts, shorts, and maybe sunglasses are all that are required in many months of the year.

Thanks for that, I bet nobody realized that until seeing you post it.

Anyway, back to the main point of this thread, every time a jogger wearing headphones is hit by a cyclist an angel gets its wings.

This thread should have been resolved a long time ago. Look, the woman fell down and hit her head on the pavement. So the cyclist hit her, so what??? It wasn't his fault that she was out there getting in the way of people on bikes. I see this same thing happening every day, over and over. The fact is that this woman unfortunately died because her head hit the pavement. It doesn't matter how fast he was going. She wasn't aware he was coming and therefore it was clearly her fault!

Look if she'd been running on a sidewalk and then darted out in front of a bunch of trucks on a freeway then we wouldn't be having this discussion. In that case she might have caused an accident on the freeway! And what if the cyclist had been injured?? You people need to get over yourselves and grow up.

I can't believe how long this thread has gotten. Runner made a U-Turn, didn't signal, rider doing what they were doing couldn't avert the runner. It's sad that someone is dead, but there's just no other way to look at this. It was the jogger's fault. Enough with the biker-bashing and other weird, self-involved accusations and alleged solutions. Look at the facts.

I run on paths all the time, with headphones. I never make a move out of my line of running without looking. I don't switch lane on the road without looking. It's common sense.