Could I break 33 mins. in the 10k based on this workout

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  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 6:48pm CDT
    re: koiu T
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    New information to add.....I did the following workout yesterday:

    2 miles @ tempo - 11:08
    1:30 rest
    2 X mile - 5:17, 5:19 (1:00 rest between)
    1:30 rest
    4 X 800m - 2:30, 2:31, 2:29, 2:28 (2:00 rest between)

    The tempo felt smooth and easy. The mile repeats were the hardest. The 800m felt hard, but I recovered quicly from them.

    I think my fitness has improved but Im still not in sub 33 shape yet.....what do you guys think?
  • S Wanjiru
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 7:14pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    3x 3000 with 400 jog rests
  • Silky Johnson
    registered
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 7:23pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    What did you do during the rests? If you were jogging at an ok pace I would say you're getting pretty damn close to sub-33. Keep working at it and keep us updated.
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 8:51pm CDT
    re: Silky Johnson
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    Silky Johnson wrote:

    What did you do during the rests? If you were jogging at an ok pace I would say you're getting pretty damn close to sub-33. Keep working at it and keep us updated.

    During the rests it was a slow jog (probably 8-9 minute pace). It definitely wasn't what I would consider an "ok" pace (7:00-7:30).

    Ill probably do a very similar type of workout in 2 weeks....Ill try to run faster between my reps and between sets as well.

    Thanks for all feedback so far
  • sisyphus
    registered
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 9:09pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    I'd say close. Those 8s after putting a little fatigue work in should help the late 5:teens feel better on race day.

    HotPanOliveOil wrote:

    New information to add.....I did the following workout yesterday:

    2 miles @ tempo - 11:08
    1:30 rest
    2 X mile - 5:17, 5:19 (1:00 rest between)
    1:30 rest
    4 X 800m - 2:30, 2:31, 2:29, 2:28 (2:00 rest between)

    The tempo felt smooth and easy. The mile repeats were the hardest. The 800m felt hard, but I recovered quicly from them.

    I think my fitness has improved but Im still not in sub 33 shape yet.....what do you guys think?
  • Pinocchio
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 9:17pm CDT
    re: sisyphus
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    sisyphus wrote:

    I'd say close. Those 8s after putting a little fatigue work in should help the late 5:teens feel better on race day.

    Thanks Sisyphus. Just a couple of quick questions:

    1. How would you alter the above workout to become more of a true "indicator" workout? - e.g. shorten and quicken the rests?

    2. Could you also indicate the times (based on your experience) you think I should be hitting for the tempo/mile repeats/800's?

    Ill try to repeat this workout in 2 weeks at the same effort level
  • dude...!
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 9:18pm CDT
    re: sisyphus
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    Getting there, but I'm going to say closer to 33:30 than 33:00.

    When do you race next?

    Try 3 x 2 miles on 800m jog rest and see what pace you can manage. I'd start with something like that 11:08 and then see if you could ratchet the next two down a little.
  • Pinocchio
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 9:24pm CDT
    re: dude...!
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    dude...! wrote:

    Getting there, but I'm going to say closer to 33:30 than 33:00.

    When do you race next?

    Try 3 x 2 miles on 800m jog rest and see what pace you can manage. I'd start with something like that 11:08 and then see if you could ratchet the next two down a little.

    I race on Oct.31st - 10k. Then Nov. 7th - Half Marathon.

    That 3 X 2 mile is a good workout. I usually do it on the roads and take 2:30-3:00 rest. Do you think this workout would be too much 5-6 days before my 10k? Because it sounds like something Id like to do for a final workout
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 9:25pm CDT
    re: Pinocchio
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    Woops.........HotPanOliveOil = Pinocchio
  • sisyphus
    registered
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 9:44pm CDT
    re: Pinocchio
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    Pinocchio wrote:

    Thanks Sisyphus. Just a couple of quick questions:

    1. How would you alter the above workout to become more of a true "indicator" workout? - e.g. shorten and quicken the rests?

    2. Could you also indicate the times (based on your experience) you think I should be hitting for the tempo/mile repeats/800's?

    Ill try to repeat this workout in 2 weeks at the same effort level

    For a good workout, you were just about perfect, tempo could have even been a little slower (11:20). As for an indicator, I'd keep the longer rep closer to race pace rests at that brisk jog effort and end at a max effort.

    3000 sub 10:00 (200 sub 50)
    2x1600 5:15 (400 sub 1:40)
    1x800 FAST - Goal would be sub 2:30 or so.

    This would be a total of 8k in just over 27 minutes. 7k of that would be race pace or faster. The big tell would be whether or not you could drop that last 800.
  • sisyphus
    registered
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 9:46pm CDT
    re: sisyphus
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    Just realized you were running next week, I wouldn't do that workout any later then Sunday.
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 9:51pm CDT
    re: sisyphus
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    sisyphus wrote:

    Just realized you were running next week, I wouldn't do that workout any later then Sunday.

    Thanks Sisyphus....that sounds like a challenging workout, but it will be a good test of where Im at.

    Im actually not racing until Sunday Oct.31st (so just over 2 weeks). Do you think that workout would too much for the Tuesday before the race? (so about 6 days prior). Other option would be to switch it to next week and do soemthing less taxing the week of the race?
  • sisyphus
    registered
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 10:26pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    Tuesdsay before the race you could probably get away with since you have stated you are more of a distance guy. A 5/10 guy I wouldn't say so but a 10/ half guy should be ok. Maybe bring the 3k back to 10:10 just to save a little for race day.
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/15/2010 10:32pm CDT
    re: sisyphus
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    sisyphus wrote:

    Tuesdsay before the race you could probably get away with since you have stated you are more of a distance guy. A 5/10 guy I wouldn't say so but a 10/ half guy should be ok. Maybe bring the 3k back to 10:10 just to save a little for race day.

    I am definitely more of a distance guy and am planning on moving up to the marathon next year. I think it will be my best distance.

    Thanks for the suggestions. Ill post my workouts and races here for anyone interested.
  • Ach Jings
    9 years ago 10/16/2010 12:52am CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    HotPanOliveOil wrote:

    Oh, so what would a good workout be?
    Someone mentioned 8 X 1k (90 secs. rest)

    NO way you should take a 90s rest.

    Instead run 8 x 1k with 200m float recovery (in 60-75s depending on ability) and the average 1k rep time will give you a truer picture of your 10k potential.

    The way you are doing the workout, you just become good at 8 x 1k with 90s rest. In the race, there's no rest.
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/16/2010 9:35am CDT
    re: Ach Jings
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    Ach Jings wrote:

    Instead run 8 x 1k with 200m float recovery (in 60-75s depending on ability) and the average 1k rep time will give you a truer picture of your 10k potential.

    The way you are doing the workout, you just become good at 8 x 1k with 90s rest. In the race, there's no rest.

    I agree....if I wanted to do more of a VO2 max workout I could something like 6 X 1k @ 5k pace with 2:00 rest....or for a more "race specific" workout, your suggestion would make sense.

    For my final 4 workouts before my 10k Ive decided to do the following (*I usually do 2 easy days b/t workouts):

    Sun. Oct. 17 - 16M with last 4 miles @ 5:45 pace
    Wed. Oct. 20 - 8 X 1k (1:00 float recovery) @ 3:18/km
    Sat. Oct. 23 - 3k in 10:00 (1:00 float recovery), 2 X mile in 5:15 (1:30 float reacovery), 1 X 800m (FAST - 2:23-2:27)
    Tues. Oct. 26 - 2 X mile @ tempo in 5:35 (1:00 float recovery), 2 X mile 5:18 (1:30 float recovery), 1 X 800m in 2:25-2:28
    Thurs. Oct. 28 - 3M Easy + 6 X 200m in 33-34 + 3M Easy


    Any suggestions or changes you would make to the above? Appreciate all feedback!
  • K Bekele
    9 years ago 10/16/2010 9:40am CDT
    re: S Wanjiru
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    5x 2000 with 400 jogs
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/16/2010 9:46am CDT
    re: K Bekele
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    K Bekele wrote:

    5x 2000 with 400 jogs

    Which workout I listed above would you replace with 5 X 2k with? Why is it a better workout than my 8 X 1k? I feel they would accomplish nearly the same thing
  • dude...!
    9 years ago 10/16/2010 3:56pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    HotPanOliveOil wrote:Any suggestions or changes you would make to the above? Appreciate all feedback!
    I'd ditch the 8 x 1k with 60s float and run 5 x 1k HARD with 4:00 standing rest, trying to keep them all close to the same pace, maybe starting at 3:05 and seeing if you edge to 3:00 flat (or maybe a hair quicker) on the last one.

    This session should be a ball buster for an endurance oriented guy with 33-flat fitness, aiming to finish knowing you couldn't do another one.

    You've already got enough strong aerobic stuff in there with short active rest. That kind of work plays to your existing strength. You need to make yourself uncomfortable with some of the kind of work you likely don't enjoy as much.

    $0.02
  • dude...!
    9 years ago 10/16/2010 3:58pm CDT
    re: dude...!
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    BTW, the 5 x 2k, 3 x 3k or 3 x 3200 suggested previously would be good INDICATOR workouts, but I think this hard session of 1000s is probably more important for your race fitness.