Wheating!!! holy crap - medal threat

Pro News/Info/Results Distance

Report Thread

You are reporting this thread to the moderators for review and possible removal from the forum.
Optional
Reply
  • Perspectivation
    10 years ago 08/13/2010 7:05pm CDT
    re: Get Real Real
    Forum Index
    Get Real Real wrote:

    Instead of acting like you know it all; or know something about Wheating... Why don't you go watch and listen to his interviews on runnerspace.com etc., and see what the man has said himself.

    He is working on a model of incremental improvement, gaining experience, learning to race different strategies etc. He and Vin have had this all planned out.

    And what he has done (moving up after the first 200 today) and running mid pack to position#2 for 500 meters... ALL fits into the plan he revealed in an interview.

    Wheating has no fear, he loves to run and race.

    His 13minute interview on runnerspace a few days ago makes it clear -- the kid digs the sport, he is not afraid of anything.

    He ain't Maggie Vessey.

    Were you responding to me? I'm not sure where you and I differ on things. To be honest I usually agree with what you say. In fact I agree with everything you just said, except maybe your first sentence.
  • sga h
    10 years ago 08/13/2010 10:29pm CDT
    re: Perspectivation
    Forum Index
    Perspectivation wrote:

    Get Real Real wrote:

    Instead of acting like you know it all; or know something about Wheating... Why don't you go watch and listen to his interviews on runnerspace.com etc., and see what the man has said himself.

    He is working on a model of incremental improvement, gaining experience, learning to race different strategies etc. He and Vin have had this all planned out.

    And what he has done (moving up after the first 200 today) and running mid pack to position#2 for 500 meters... ALL fits into the plan he revealed in an interview.

    Wheating has no fear, he loves to run and race.

    His 13minute interview on runnerspace a few days ago makes it clear -- the kid digs the sport, he is not afraid of anything.

    He ain't Maggie Vessey.

    Were you responding to me? I'm not sure where you and I differ on things. To be honest I usually agree with what you say. In fact I agree with everything you just said, except maybe your first sentence.


    Or maybe you were responding to me? Regardless of which of us you were talking to, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. Me saying that I put a strategy up on Letsrun and then thinking Wheating (or his coach) checked up on the boards and was suddenly convinced to change strategies was a thing called a joke. I also posted that original commentin a different thread about him before his interview that you referred to was put up. I also agree with you generally except for your opening statement. He does have the opportunity to do very well once he figures out the ins and outs of racing on a world class level.

    Maybe you should just assume that there might be something satirical when someone claims to have influenced the decisions of a 1:44 800 meter runner and his coach by posting a 2 line comment on a message baord.

    Moron.
  • sga h
    10 years ago 08/13/2010 10:33pm CDT
    re: sga h
    Forum Index

    By the way, I saw my typos... I never said I am not a moron too.
  • /r/Trees
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 12:10am CDT
    re: sga h
    Forum Index

    Does anyone else just think that Nick is just trolling us all, and come London 2012 hes just going to sit right off the leader the entire way and out-kick him?
  • VIPAM
    registered
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 12:13am CDT
    re: /r/Trees
    Forum Index

    Andrew Wheating was capable of somewhere around 1:43.6 if the pace was faster; however, I don't think he could have beaten Kaki but he definitely could have been dragged to a much faster time- NO DOUBT!
  • Beast mode, son
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 3:02am CDT
    re: /r/Trees
    Forum Index

    If this happened it would be extraordinarily epic.
  • clearthinking
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 4:27am CDT
    re: eatyerfnwheatings
    Forum Index

    Kinda early for this. Give the guy a chance to come into his own. Last week it was "Solinsky being the best white distance runner ever", now once again I have to see the same hyperbole in place. It is kind of curious how we see this kind of rambling hyperbole on this board only about white athletes. It's Ryan Hall one day, Alan Webb the next day. Jenny Barringer the next, Phoebe Wright the next, Morgan Uceny the next. People, give it a break. I certainly hope these athletes don't read these boards. Maybe they do and that's why they later crash and burn. The hype here is enough to kill anyone's career.
  • grand slam
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 7:34am CDT
    re: VIPAM
    Forum Index
    VIPAM wrote:

    Andrew Wheating was capable of somewhere around 1:43.6 if the pace was faster; however, I don't think he could have beaten Kaki but he definitely could have been dragged to a much faster time- NO DOUBT!

    How much faster did you want the pace to be?

    23.8 at 200m and 49.2 at 400m, with Wheating in around 50.5. That's WR pace and he clearly couldn't hold on to it as his last 200m was over 27 secs. I think the pace was about perfect for him, perhaps a little too fast.

    I don't doubt he's capable of 1:44.0 at moment, but he's probably getting tired for the season now.
  • dnixon
    registered
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 8:52am CDT
    re: grand slam
    Forum Index

    Whoever said earlier that Wheating ran a great tactical race is wrong. Watch the video. He still spends far too much time in the outer edge of lane 2, even around the bends, wasting valuable time and energy. I'm certain that he actually covered 800m FASTER than did Kaki, who hugged the curb for the duration of the race. It's just that Wheating ended up running FARTHER because of his lane position.

    There were some folks who did a close video analysis of the 800m final at the 1980 Olympics where Nils Schumann was the surprise winner over Wilson Kipketer. It's enlightening:

    "The Olympic 800 m final for men was won by N. Schumann of Germany in 1:45.08, and the silver medal was won by the race favourite, W. Kipketer of Denmark in 1:45.14. Schumann ran close to the kerb throughout the race and covered a total distance of 802 m. Kipketer, in contrast, ran in lanes 2 and 3 throughout the race and covered a total distance of 813 m. Schumann’s average velocity (over 802 m) was 7.63 m/s and Kipketer’s average velocity (over 813 m) was 7.73 m/s. Using these average velocities, the race times to cover 800 m can be calculated to be 1:43.46 for Kipketer and 1:44.82 for Schumann."

    So in essence, Kipketer spotted Schumann 11 meters. Hard to win under those conditions.
  • dnixon
    registered
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 9:07am CDT
    re: dnixon
    Forum Index

    For this particular race I meant to say, "far too much time in lane 2." The first bend, of course, is the staggered start. For the second bend Wheating is in lane 2 the entire way. For the penultimate bend he's in lane 2 for about a third of the distance. And for the final bend he's either on the inside of lane 2 or right on the line between lanes 1-2.
  • I very much doubt it
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 11:08am CDT
    re: /r/Trees
    Forum Index
    /r/Trees wrote:

    Does anyone else just think that Nick is just trolling us all, and come London 2012 hes just going to sit right off the leader the entire way and out-kick him?

    No.
  • grand slam
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 7:07pm CDT
    re: dnixon
    Forum Index
    dnixon wrote:

    Whoever said earlier that Wheating ran a great tactical race is wrong. Watch the video. He still spends far too much time in the outer edge of lane 2, even around the bends, wasting valuable time and energy. I'm certain that he actually covered 800m FASTER than did Kaki, who hugged the curb for the duration of the race. It's just that Wheating ended up running FARTHER because of his lane position.


    I get the drift of what you are saying, and agree that Wheating did run wide on parts of the bends, but you have over exaggerated by how much. He NEVER touches the outer edge of lane 2 on the bends, which is the only relevant parts; running wide on the straights doesn't require running further distance.

    I was lucky enough to be at Crystal Palace for that race and having watched it again on video, it's clear that he runs most of the first bend (after 200m) on the outside of lane 1, and probably on the line between lanes 1 and 2. Had he run the whole bend outside that line (i.e in lane 2) he'd have run a further 3.5m. I'd say he probably ran an extra 2.5-3m.

    On the 2nd bend (after 400m) he runs all but the last couple of strides completely in lane 1, if not on the curb. He probably runs 1.5 - 2m further than necessary.

    On the last bend he again runs most of it along the line separating lanes 1 and 2. Only as he enters the straight does he veer into lane 2. I'd give him an extra 2.5m on this bend.

    So, he probably run somewhere between 6.5 and 7.5m further. That's worth about 1:43.7 had he stuck to the rail and been paced accordingly with no one boxing or jostling him. That is obviously a perfect scenario which rarely happens unless it's a world record pace.

    dnixon wrote:


    There were some folks who did a close video analysis of the 800m final at the 1980 Olympics where Nils Schumann was the surprise winner over Wilson Kipketer. It's enlightening:

    "The Olympic 800 m final for men was won by N. Schumann of Germany in 1:45.08, and the silver medal was won by the race favourite, W. Kipketer of Denmark in 1:45.14. Schumann ran close to the kerb throughout the race and covered a total distance of 802 m. Kipketer, in contrast, ran in lanes 2 and 3 throughout the race and covered a total distance of 813 m. Schumann’s average velocity (over 802 m) was 7.63 m/s and Kipketer’s average velocity (over 813 m) was 7.73 m/s. Using these average velocities, the race times to cover 800 m can be calculated to be 1:43.46 for Kipketer and 1:44.82 for Schumann."


    So in essence, Kipketer spotted Schumann 11 meters. Hard to win under those conditions.

    I take it you mean the 2000 Olympics and not the 1980.

    I think I know who did that analysis. The same thing happened in 1980, as you happened to mentioned it.

    When analysing how wide Coe was on the bends, he ran approx. 812m, compared to Ovett who ran about 803m. Coe was notoriously bad at running wide and giving away vital advantages, but while for Wheating it's because he's so tall and it could affect his stride length running in the pack, for Coe it was that his small frame tended to get knocked around more.

    I think Wheating got it about right on Friday night tactically. Kaki's first 200m was too fast in 23.8, whereas Wheating's was a more sensible 24.8.
    I got these 200 splits for Wheating: - 24.8, 25.4 (50.2), 27.0 (1:17.2), 27.3

    His last 100m was 13.3, compared to Kaki's 13.5.
  • Perspectivation
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 7:24pm CDT
    re: dnixon
    Forum Index
    dnixon wrote:

    Whoever said earlier that Wheating ran a great tactical race is wrong. Watch the video. He still spends far too much time in the outer edge of lane 2, even around the bends, wasting valuable time and energy. I'm certain that he actually covered 800m FASTER than did Kaki, who hugged the curb for the duration of the race. It's just that Wheating ended up running FARTHER because of his lane position.
    .

    This has certainly been discussed, and the consensus is that both wheating and his coaches know about extra length of running wide and that is just something they have to deal with. At 6'5" with that stride length the chances of getting trapped and or tripped are just way to high too high. While he may get away with running on the inside on occasion and actually run faster, more often than not it is likely to haunt him. He has gotten on the rail before and gotten stuck, he can't slip thru like a centro or symmonds can. He had to wait, wait, wait and slip out the back to come around. That's a lot worse scenario than running wide but being free.

    I tend to agree with them on that decision, and I think London was about the best he's ever done in terms of staying close/in lane one. You can actually see him make some quick adjustments to come in on lane one around the corner when the opportunity was right, but then also step out when traffic got thick. That's the best he can do IMHO, and it's just the way he'll have to run.
  • u of o track fan
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 8:39pm CDT
    re: Get Real Real
    Forum Index

    sorry to non belivers but i know alot more about oregon track than you. Matt centro can run with the best and beat them including wheating. mark my words. future 1500 world record holder.
  • u of o track fan
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 8:48pm CDT
    re: NWrunner V2,0
    Forum Index

    watch the race you dip shit. centro had it won for the last 100 meters. whatever you think is ok with me. believe what you want.
  • u of o track fan
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 8:52pm CDT
    re: NWrunner V2,0
    Forum Index

    shows your intelligents
  • dnixon
    registered
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 9:34pm CDT
    re: grand slam
    Forum Index

    Thanks for the correction. Yes, I meant the 2000 Olympics. Wasn't aware that Coe essentially did the same thing against Ovett in1980.
  • dnixon
    registered
    10 years ago 08/14/2010 9:42pm CDT
    re: Perspectivation
    Forum Index
    I think London was about the best he's ever done in terms of staying close/in lane one. You can actually see him make some quick adjustments to come in on lane one around the corner when the opportunity was right, but then also step out when traffic got thick. That's the best he can do IMHO, and it's just the way he'll have to run.

    Good observations regarding the downside of being 6'5" and running in the pack. Hadn't considered that. And yes, you're right: this was probably the best Wheating has done to stay close to the curb. It showed.
  • ventolin^3
    registered
    10 years ago 08/15/2010 3:05am CDT
    re: Perspectivation
    Forum Index

    wheating's a "player" now, with enough clout to arrange a low key 800 somewhere where he can run lane 1 all the way & "bank" that 1'43 ( like webb with his 1'43.8 )

    it'll probably have to be next year though

    anyhows, once he's ended all speculation about times with that he can get on with racing
  • Perspectivation
    10 years ago 08/15/2010 3:16am CDT
    re: ventolin^3
    Forum Index
    ventolin^3 wrote:

    wheating's a "player" now, with enough clout to arrange a low key 800 somewhere where he can run lane 1 all the way & "bank" that 1'43 ( like webb with his 1'43.8 )

    it'll probably have to be next year though

    anyhows, once he's ended all speculation about times with that he can get on with racing

    Interesting point, but Wheating seems 100% a racer, not sure how motivated he'd be in a time trial. Best opportunity is when he's fit and fresh (next summer) get him in a race with Rudisha and get him ahead of the pack before the bell lap so he only has to run the 2nd corner outside (first corner doesn't matter with stagger).

    Right now the only guys that I think are clearly better than Wheating are Rudisha and Kaki for 800, and Wheating is tired. If he's geared for next summer, I think he'll have a huge 800 pop. We have yet to see anyone pass him down a homestretch in any diamond league race. Might as well stick his nose out a little further and see what happens. I still think the 1500 is better for championships for him, but no reason to give up the 800 yet.
Advertisement: