Marty Liquori's Training Program

Amazing. Went from 4:14 1500 to 3:51 in 3 months. My most improved event was the 5000, though. Went from 15:46 to 14:56 in 4 months.

Which level did you use?

4:14 to 3:51 in the 1500 is clearly a larger improvement than 15:46 to 14:56 in the 5k, no?

Based on his trolling in other threads, I am guessing he didn't use the system and probably has no clue what it is.

Before the trolls get to you, I used the program for a year in the mid 80's. Someone had given me a copy of "Real Running" as a Christmas present, and when I graduated, I followed the "Category A" schedule. Since you must have seen the book (or the reprint), that should make sense. Really, the only difference between the book and my log was that my long runs were more 16-18, and I had a 3-4 mile AM run M-F. I didn't have any ability - I had only run high 26's for 5 miles before I started following the schedule - but saw some improvements, the highlight of which was when I managed to run 32:08 for a 10 just after coming out of phase 4 that fall. That still may be the best I ever felt in a race.

I probably would have stuck with the program - I see now Marty was using a VERY Lydiard style approach - but life and circumstances intervened.

I loved that book, which I believe was originally published in 1980 (by Playboy Press!) as "Marty Liquori's Guide for the Elite Runner" and later re-issued as "Real Running." The specific training schedules in the book were less important than the general training principles (largely Lydiard-based, as Liquori freely acknowledged) and many little kernals of wisdom, in a pithy writing style that probably owed much to the book's co-author, John Parker (of "Once a Runner" fame).

It's hard for to say what results of mine could be attributed to Liquori's "training program," but I can say that the book steered me away from weekly racing at the level of 33-34 10ks and 2:35 marathons to long stretches of two-a-day training without racing followed by sub-30 10ks and sub-2:20 marathons.

Avocados Number wrote:

I loved that book, which I believe was originally published in 1980 (by Playboy Press!) as "Marty Liquori's Guide for the Elite Runner" and later re-issued as "Real Running." The specific training schedules in the book were less important than the general training principles (largely Lydiard-based, as Liquori freely acknowledged) and many little kernals of wisdom, in a pithy writing style that probably owed much to the book's co-author, John Parker (of "Once a Runner" fame).

It's hard for to say what results of mine could be attributed to Liquori's "training program," but I can say that the book steered me away from weekly racing at the level of 33-34 10ks and 2:35 marathons to long stretches of two-a-day training without racing followed by sub-30 10ks and sub-2:20 marathons.

Were you doing workouts during those stretches? If so, what? Or was it just mileage?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that a sub-30 and sub-2:20 was not on straight mileage.

Thanks the the replies so far! I have a copy of both the original and the re-issue. It seems to be a very direct and easy to follow training plan. I know Liquori was an outstanding runner, but I know that doesn't always transfer over to being a good coach. I was mainly just wondering if there is any huge flaws to the technique or if any of the ideas were outdated.

fasdfasdf wrote:

Were you doing workouts during those stretches? If so, what? Or was it just mileage?

During my periods of greatest improvement, I did virtually no racing or training at marathon race pace or faster. I did eventually incorporate some very intense deep-water running into my training schedule (which allowed me to do some work at a higher metabolic rate without greater musculoskeletal stress), and I later included some intense treadmill sessions (although I don't think that I did any treadmill running until I was already somewhere near 2:20 shape). But for me, the great bulk of the improvement came from increased training volume, and I don't think that I could have increased my training volume as I did, without greatly increasing injury risk, except by eliminating virtually all racing and race-pace training during those mileage build-ups.

My own view is that too many people focus on the kind of training that squeezes the last 3% out of the body, instead of focusing on the kind of training that produces 97% of the improvement. Others, I'm sure, have a different view.

Even now, thirty years later, Liquori's book is still better than most of the stuff out there. Keep in mind, however, that Liquori had a bit of a bias toward middle distances and track racing. Pure marathoners might do better to focus more on "tempo," "threshold," or "marathon pace" training as they move into Liquori's "phase three" training, which for Liquori was a combination of distance and interval work. There is also considerable room for debate about the precise length and nature of the "phase four" taper for marathoners, who arguably need to maintain high training volume closer to the target race than would be true for a miler looking for a peak performance during a racing season. But I think that the general principles of Liquori's approach remain sound, and Liquori's book is admirably uncluttered and straightforward.

It's a great book; I finally tracked a copy down to replace the one borrowed years ago by one of my teammates. I wish that he had spent some time discussing the stuff that he did while at Villanova.

I found that book in an old used book store in the late eighties. Like others have stated, it was a great, no frills book.

I'll have to do some house cleaning to find the book again.

Avocados Number wrote:

[quote]fasdfasdf wrote:

My own view is that too many people focus on the kind of training that squeezes the last 3% out of the body, instead of focusing on the kind of training that produces 97% of the improvement. Others, I'm sure, have a different view.

Nicely stated.

The two books that influenced me the most in high school were Liquori's Guide for the Elite Runner and Ron Daws' Self-Made Olympian. I still have both 27 years later. They are dog-eared, highlighted, and underlined.

It wasn't so much the training advice but all of the bits of wisdom and the overall approach to the sport. I was in a small high school in the pre-internet days, and that kind of information was very hard to come by for me.

The "Nuggets of Wisdom" from Guide for the Elite Runner are just as relevant and current today as the day they were written. A great, great book for which I have great affinity and fond memories of reading and re-reading it nearly to the point of memorization.

Interesting. You upped your mileage from x to y. What were

x and y?

Very interesting and well written post (as usual). And on paper, I agree with most of it. Recently I have done, more or less, what you mentioned as working for you: good amounts of volume, no racing or speedwork, some deepwater running and cross-training, and I felt very strong in training. I finally raced a 5k and it did not go well. Sure, it was only one race, but I still think it goes to show that we are all different (as you suggested by mentioning "others' different views" which of course are formed from different experiences). I am more of an 800 guy and I think I need to work on my strengths (speed) or I just can't handle fast paces. I also find uncomfortably hard racing a whole 'nother ball game than comfortably hard distance runs. I need a bridge in there somewhere.

Anyway, even though I agree that the speedwork and races bring about a risk of injury for me (I am injury prone), the lack of speed work and races undoubtedly brings about a risk, or more truthfully, a strong likelihood, of a shitty race. A rock and a hard place, but I now feel confident I need to take a chance on more speed work and more racing or I won't race well at all.

I got Liquori's Guide for the Elite runner (first edition :) in '80 or '81, and it really helped get me over a big hump in my racing where I'd been stuck for over a year.

It even works for non-elites like me. I improved from mid 34's to mid 33's in the 10k and from 2:44 to 2:37.

The book was a font of wisdom for me back in the pre-internet days. I practically memorized it. I pulled it off the shelf recently, and it's still good. I never did the phase 4 stuff, though. Too impatient to race :)

I boosted my mileage from the low 70's to the 90's (miles/week) when I did the phase 1 training. That's probably where most of the improvement came, and I was healthier and had fewer injuries under his regimen.

His description of how speedwork is properly run is invaluable -- it still goes through my head every time I do intervals.

can anyone who owns the book post the various phases examples. Not sure this book is out there anylonger, but sounds like great stuff.