Silas Kiplagat-Mystery Man

It's pointless. He's insane. No matter how well reasoned your posts are, he won't give an inch. He'll just say it's bullshit and add an "LOL" or two. Just act the like all of his posts are blank. In terms of critical thinking, they are.

Hes a joke. Considering the sheer volume of Kenyan participating in road races, cross countries and marathons across the globe, he produces a list of about 6 people, one of whom is a boxer and the other a footballer who hardly played for the national team.

And the "jasper" can add another info : Lydia Cheromei had her baby 6 months after being positive for doping (it was a medicine for having her baby). Because she was pregnant, nobody thought to inform the IAAF (whereabout system) about this fact. Of course, it was for enhancing her performance....

Agree, have gone through the list with comments**

1999: Delilah Asiago (unspecified substance, a 2-year ban) *15:11 5km*

2000: Simon Kemboi – nandrolone *SPRINTER*

2003: Ambrose Bitok – norandrosterone *13:52 5KM*

2003: Pamela Chepchumba – EPO *14:56 5KM*

2003: Bernard Lagat - EPO (exempted due to "technicality", like Marion Jones ) *AMERICAN ?*

2004: David Munyasia (boxing) - stimulant cathine *BOXER*

2005: Susan Chepkemei - Salbutamol (according to a testimony of a Serbian athlete, she had a fridge full of EPO syringes during her stay in USA in 2004) *Serbian! No failed test*

2005: Philip Wire Opiyo (football) - unspecified substance *FOOTBALL*

2006: Lydia Cheromei – clomiphene *8:29 3KM*

2007: Charles Nyakundi – boldenone------------ *2:17 marathon thats jogging in Kenya!*

2008: Elizabeth Muthuka – nandrolone *SPRINTER*

2009: Nicholas Kemboi - EPO possession *???*

You would get a hell lot more than that for the UK or US! Can only find a couple which would be termed elite ditance runners - check the list for Ethiopia and there is even less

Renato:

Any true athletics fan knows you and respect you.personally i adore you because iam close to some of the athletes you have coached.Alot of the people who write negative things about athletes are jealous and so you should not let them bother you one bit.A few of them however are justified for feeling cynical of athletics coz of the way many top athletes have let the sport down.All these issues are understandeable.I say to them just take it easy.Humans are to err and life is and will always have cheats but not everyone is a cheat.

UK athletics coach you are being redicuous.there is more kenya atheletes to the number of UK athletes.i suspect the ratio is something like 10:1.....surely you cant compare the figures in that case.Also whereas it is true athletes like susan chepkemei have failed drgugs test it is also apparent that heir are many outstading kenyan runners who are spotless.There is no need to try and look for shit where there isnt any.

Count Teleki wrote:Czech guy: Most of those guys you listed are insignificant.

Top athletes just don't dope. They will gladly share all the medals and money with others. Mr Wizard is 100% sure.

Also........

Lagat was absolved because the B sample was negative not because of a technicality.

I waited for these "objections". Thank you. What you should know that the EPO test is very reliable. Yes, lawyers of caught cheats argued that it is unreliable - it gives FALSE NEGATIVES, not FALSE POSITIVES. I remember at least four other "unguilty" athletes, who tested negative in the B-sample and argued that it was due to "metabolic abnormality". Curiously, three of them are endurance athletes - and the fourth one was Marion Jones. No curling players or weightlifters with metabolic abnormalities?

Further, athletes of other countries also tested positive for "mere" stimulants or marijuana. These cases are included in the total number. When the population size is taken into account, the number of doping cases in Kenya corresponds to 70 cases in USA. A very solid number, what do you think? How many doping cases did similarly populous European countries collected during the time between 1999-2009? I found this:

Ukraine - 5 (3x steroids, 1xephendrine, 1xunknown stuff)

Poland - 5 (1x EPO, 1xsteroids, 1xmarijuana, 1xglucocorticosteroid, 1xprobably steroids?)

Spain - 17 (8xEPO, 1xdarbepoetin, 1xconfessed doping use, 1xmarijuana-amnested, 1xunknown stuff-amnested, 1xcocaine, 4xsteroids)

So only 9 people in Spain used blood doping and another one confessed? That's O.K. When one considers the thousands of competing cyclists, runners (and one prominent cross-country skier), there's nothing we should worry about. Spain is basically an angelic country.

You still havent explained to us how Kenyans are getting away with mass doping in a manner that other westerners cannot.

Kenyans and Ethiopians are not getting away with doping. They are being caught. But the numbers that have been caught are just a small tip of the iceberg. Like in every country.

However, the regression of times we currently observe suggests that the war against doping is surprisingly successful. But the main factor may not be the effectiveness of the tests per se, but the announced long-term storage of athletes' samples.

And how the heck does Kenya get access to PEDs that westerners cannot.

Kenya is a third world country. Like Jamaica. A paradise for drug sellers. USA, France and other developed countries recently went very hard after drug abuse. Some "natural athletes" even ended up in prison, after all. Not just the most perspective market.

Renato Canova wrote:

And the "jasper" can add another info : Lydia Cheromei had her baby 6 months after being positive for doping (it was a medicine for having her baby). Because she was pregnant, nobody thought to inform the IAAF (whereabout system) about this fact. Of course, it was for enhancing her performance....

Clomiphene (or clomid) is a well-known and notoriously abused drug, Mr Wizard. Similarly like beta-agonists (Clenbuterol, Salbutamol) that so many athletes take "by mistake" due to "unhappy ignorance". It is used by bodybuilders as a post-cycle stimulant of testosterone. Teach your pupils. Cheromei's coach must be an utter simpleton, I think? And by the way, does pregnancy in African women last only 6 months?

moron

clomiphene is a gonadatrophin stimulator to induce ovulation in order to treat anovulatory infertility

if you had a clue about medicine you'd know it is the most widely prescribed fertility drug in the world

proof of intent is that she conceived within months

as for doping use in females, idiot : it causes only a surge in fsh/lh in females which has no effect on testo production in females, as they have minimal testo production anyway & this is produced by the adrenals which isn't influenced by fsh/lh

learn some medicine idiot before quoting drivel

as for beta-agonists - the suggestion that salbutamol is a "post-cycle stimulator of testo" is the most laughable drivel i've ever read in my life !

do you know how many asthmatics are on huge doses : ventolin 5 - 10mg nebules qds in the world ???

have you ever seen one of those who ever turn into a mr olympia contender even after decades of it's use ???

if you are going to post such horseshit, you better find some peer-reviewed papers in reputable journals before posting this drivel

I dubt you can understand something very clear, because you are blind due to your convinction that everybody is doped. Since also in Africa the pregnancy lasts 9 months, every person not stupid understand that the antidoping test for Lydia Cheromei was done WHEN SHE WAS ALREADY PREGNANT OF 3 MONTHS. Now, I repeat my question : do you think she took that medicin for enhancing her performances during the pregnancy ?

Czech guy just got owned.

Czech guys last statement about Kenya being a paradise for drug dealers because its a 3rd world country made me realize he is either brain dead or biased or is just mouthing off to seek attention. I believe its the second. Like his compatriots at cursed football he is indeed unable to deal with reality so he makes up an imaginary parallel world.

If drugs are easy to get in Kenya then one would think that athletes from all over the world would be rushing to Kenya to score drugs. Athletes from every sport.

Also the idea drug makers would flock to Kenya where 50% live on poverty including most potential runners is a joke. Why would'nt the drug makers go to Mexico in order to make it easier for major leagers to score drugs ? What a joke.

Also the number of Kenyans who have tested positive is miniscule when compared to the sheer volume of Kenyan runners who appear at road races, marathons, track meets etc all over thw world.

[quote]ventolin^3 wrote:

moron

clomiphene is a gonadatrophin stimulator to induce ovulation in order to treat anovulatory infertility

if you had a clue about medicine you'd know it is the most widely prescribed fertility drug in the world

as for doping use in females, idiot : it causes only a surge in fsh/lh in females which has no effect on testo production in females, as they have minimal testo production anyway & this is produced by the adrenals which isn't influenced by fsh/lh[quote]

Dear Woulda-Shoulda-Coulda, it is also one of the most widely used and known doping stuffs in the world. Is her coach/doctor such a dolt that he is not aware of it? Aren't athletes obliged to inform about all drugs they use? How many times did we hear that song "I didn't know it is on the list of banned substances!".

If it helped her or not is rather irrelevant then. How many desperate athletes purposedly use beta-agonists "by mistake" as an anabolic drug, although their anabolic properties are very debatable?

I would say that the number of doping cases in Kenya fits a European country that is plagued by doping abuse in a above-average manner. Face the fact that your athletes dope like everybody else - and in fact, even more. Everything else is a dreaming separated from the reality.

For many European "dottores" and "Wizards", it is a paradise, because there are many people, who are willing to be injected by anything. And for your information: 3000 i.u. of EPO can be ordered from China for 15 USD. A very comfortable price, what do you think?

[quote]markeroon wrote:

Czech guy just got owned.

[quote]

Everything I said was correct, sentence by sentence. Do you have any peculiar objection?

How many of the 3:30.00 marks and under were run between 1995 and 2000 (time of EPO coming on the market and the EPO drug test announcment).

Keep in mind this is the ALL TIME list and includes the TEN YEARS AFTER 2000!!!!

1500 Metres All Time

3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj (MAR) - Roma, 14/07/1998

Updated as at:24/07/2010 Mark Athlete Nation DOB Pos Venue Date

3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14/09/1974 1 Roma 14/07/1998

3:26.12 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 24/08/2001

3:26.34 Bernard Lagat KEN 12/12/1974 2 Bruxelles 24/08/2001

3:26.45 Hicham El Guerrouj 1r1 Zürich 12/08/1998

3:26.89 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Zürich 16/08/2002

3:26.96 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Rieti 08/09/2002

3:27.21 Hicham El Guerrouj 1r1 Zürich 11/08/2000

3:27.34 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Monaco 19/07/2002

3:27.37 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28/02/1970 1 Nice 12/07/1995

3:27.40 Bernard Lagat 1 Zürich 06/08/2004

3:27.52 Noureddine Morceli 1 Monaco 25/07/1995

3:27.64 Hicham El Guerrouj 2 Zürich 06/08/2004

3:27.65 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Sevilla 24/08/1999

3:27.91 Bernard Lagat 2 Monaco 19/07/2002

3:28.12 Noah Ngeny KEN 02/11/1978 2r1 Zürich 11/08/2000

3:28.37 Noureddine Morceli 1 Monaco 09/09/1995

3:28.37 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Monaco 08/08/1998

3:28.38 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Paris Saint-Denis 06/07/2001

3:28.40 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 05/09/2003

3:28.51 Bernard Lagat 3r1 Zürich 11/08/2000

3:28.57 Hicham El Guerrouj 1r1 Zürich 11/08/1999

3:28.73 Noah Ngeny 2 Sevilla 24/08/1999

3:28.84 Noah Ngeny 1 Paris (Charléty) 21/07/1999

3:28.86 Noureddine Morceli 1 Rieti 06/09/1992

3:28.91 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Zürich 13/08/1997

3:28.92 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 22/08/1997

3:28.93 Noah Ngeny 1 München 11/09/1999

3:28.95 Fermín Cacho ESP 16/02/1969 2 Zürich 13/08/1997

3:28.98 Mehdi Baala FRA 17/08/1978 2 Bruxelles 05/09/2003

3:29.02 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen KEN 27/11/1984 1 Roma 14/07/2006

3:29.05 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 23/08/1996

3:29.06 Hicham El Guerrouj 1r1 Zürich 17/08/2001

3:29.08 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Rieti 02/09/2001

3:29.12 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Oslo 09/07/1998

3:29.13 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Zürich 15/08/2003

3:29.14 Rashid Ramzi BRN 17/07/1980 2 Roma 14/07/2006

3:29.18 Vénuste Niyongabo BDI 09/12/1973 2 Bruxelles 22/08/1997

3:29.18 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Heusden-Zolder 31/07/2004

3:29.19 Noah Ngeny 1 Bruxelles 03/09/1999

3:29.20 Noureddine Morceli 1 Narbonne 20/06/1993

3:29.21 Bernard Lagat 1 Paris Saint-Denis 23/07/2004

3:29.27 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Paris (Chárlety) 14/09/2002

3:29.27 Silas Kiplagat KEN 20/08/1989 1 Monaco 22/07/2010

3:29.29 William Chirchir KEN 06/02/1979 3 Bruxelles 24/08/2001

3:29.30 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Stockholm 07/07/1997

3:29.30 Bernard Lagat 1 Rieti 28/08/2005

3:29.43 Vénuste Niyongabo 3 Zürich 13/08/1997

3:29.46 Saïd Aouita MAR 02/11/1959 1 Berlin 23/08/1985

3:29.46 Daniel Komen KEN 17/05/1976 1 Monaco 16/08/1997

3:29.47 Augustine Kiprono Choge KEN 21/01/1987 1 Berlin 14/06/2009

3:29.50 Noureddine Morceli 1 Paris 28/06/1996

3:29.51 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Hengelo 31/05/1997

3:29.51 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15/03/1978 1 Lausanne 04/07/2001

3:29.53 Amine Laalou MAR 13/05/1982 2 Monaco 22/07/2010

3:29.57 Noureddine Morceli 1 + Rieti 05/09/1993

3:29.59 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Stockholm 08/07/1996

3:29.67 Steve Cram GBR 14/10/1960 1 Nice 16/07/1985

3:29.67 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 28/08/1998

3:29.68 Bernard Lagat 1 Rieti 27/08/2006

3:29.71 Saïd Aouita 2 Nice 16/07/1985

3:29.72 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 + Oslo 04/07/1997

3:29.72 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen 1 Berlin 04/09/2005

3:29.76 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Roma 11/07/2003

3:29.77 Sydney Maree USA 09/09/1956 1 Köln 25/08/1985

3:29.77 Sebastian Coe GBR 29/09/1956 1 Rieti 07/09/1986

3:29.79 Noah Ngeny 1 Monaco 04/08/1999

3:29.85 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 + Roma 29/06/2001

3:29.91 Laban Rotich KEN 20/01/1969 2r1 Zürich 12/08/1998

3:29.95 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 30/08/2002

3:29.96 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Paris Saint-Denis 05/07/2002

3:29.99 Noureddine Morceli 1 Rieti 01/09/1996

3:29.99 Noah Ngeny 1 Roma 30/06/2000

3:30.00 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Berlin 06/09/2002

3:30.00 Rashid Ramzi 1 Roma 08/07/2005

a fair question wrote:

How many of the 3:48.00 marks and under were run between 1995 and 2000 (time of EPO coming on the market and the EPO drug test announcment).

Keep in mind this is the ALL TIME list and includes the TEN YEARS AFTER 2000!!!!

3:43.13 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14/09/1974 1 Roma 07/07/1999

3:43.40 Noah Ngeny KEN 02/11/1978 2 Roma 07/07/1999

3:44.39 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28/02/1970 1 Rieti 05/09/1993

3:44.60 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Nice 16/07/1998

3:44.90 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Oslo 04/07/1997

3:44.95 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Roma 29/06/2001

3:45.19 Noureddine Morceli 1 Zürich 16/08/1995

3:45.64 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Berlin 26/08/1997

3:45.96 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 London 05/08/2000

3:46.24 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Oslo 28/07/2000

3:46.32 Steve Cram GBR 14/10/1960 1 Oslo 27/07/1985

3:46.38 Daniel Komen KEN 17/05/1976 2 Berlin 26/08/1997

3:46.70 Vénuste Niyongabo BDI 09/12/1973 3 Berlin 26/08/1997

3:46.76 Saïd Aouita MAR 02/11/1959 1 Helsinki 02/07/1987

3:46.78 Noureddine Morceli 1 Berlin 27/08/1993

3:46.91 Alan Webb USA 13/01/1983 1 Brasschaat 21/07/2007

3:46.92 Saïd Aouita 1 Zürich 21/08/1985

3:47.10 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 London 07/08/1999

3:47.28 Bernard Lagat KEN 12/12/1974 2 Roma 29/06/2001

3:47.30 Noureddine Morceli 1 Bruxelles 03/09/1993

3:47.33 Sebastian Coe GBR 29/09/1956 1 Bruxelles 28/08/1981

3:47.65 Laban Rotich KEN 20/01/1969 2 Oslo 04/07/1997

3:47.67 Noah Ngeny 2 London 05/08/2000

3:47.69 Steve Scott USA 05/05/1956 1 Oslo 07/07/1982

3:47.78 Noureddine Morceli 1 Oslo 10/07/1993

3:47.79 José Luís Gonzalez ESP 08/12/1957 2 Oslo 27/07/1985

3:47.85 Daniel Komen 1 Rieti 03/09/1997

3:47.88 John Kemboi Kibowen KEN 21/04/1969 3 Oslo 04/07/1997

3:47.91 Hicham El Guerrouj 1 Bruxelles 25/08/2000

3:47.94 William Chirchir KEN 06/02/1979 2 Oslo 28/07/2000

3:47.97 Daham Najim Bashir QAT 08/11/1979 1 Oslo 29/07/2005

Keep in mind that it is DAMN HARD to actually get caught for using EPO, since only a complete moron would use it the day of or before a major race, but the fear factor of random testing still came into play in 2000 with the announcement of the test.

[quote]a fair question wrote:

How many of the 7:28.00 marks and under were run between 1995 and 2000 (time of EPO coming on the market and the EPO drug test announcment).

Keep in mind this is the ALL TIME list and includes the TEN YEARS AFTER 2000!!!!

3000 Metres All Time

7:20.67 Daniel Komen KEN 17/05/1976 1 Rieti 01/09/1996

7:23.09 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14/09/1974 1 Bruxelles 03/09/1999

7:25.02 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15/03/1978 1 Monaco 18/08/2000

7:25.09 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18/04/1973 1 Bruxelles 28/08/1998

7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28/02/1970 1 Monaco 02/08/1994

7:25.16 Daniel Komen 1 Monaco 10/08/1996

7:25.54 Haile Gebrselassie 1 Monaco 08/08/1998

7:25.79 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13/06/1982 1 Stockholm 07/08/2007

7:25.87 Daniel Komen 1 Bruxelles 23/08/1996

7:26.02 Haile Gebrselassie 1 Bruxelles 22/08/1997

7:26.03 Haile Gebrselassie 1 Helsinki 10/06/1999

7:26.62 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10/10/1970 2 Monaco 18/08/2000

7:26.69 Kenenisa Bekele 1 Sheffield 15/07/2007

7:27.18 Moses Kiptanui KEN 01/10/1970 1 Monaco 25/07/1995

7:27.42 Haile Gebrselassie 1 Oslo 09/07/1998

7:27.50 Noureddine Morceli 1 Bruxelles 25/08/1995

7:27.59 Luke Kipkosgei KEN 27/11/1975 2 Monaco 08/08/1998

7:27.67 Ali Saïdi-Sief 1 Paris Saint-Denis 23/06/2000

7:27.72 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05/11/1984 1 Bruxelles 03/09/2004

7:27.75 Tom Nyariki KEN 27/09/1971 2 Monaco 10/08/1996