Bolder Boulder Elite Race

Translation: You were another semi-respectable 34:00-minute local guy who thought he was special because he got to run with the 500 or so runners in the "A" wave with the other sub-38:00 runners who were lining up with the elites. There was appearance money for the real elites back then. Your flawed logic would mean the Olympic Games is also jingoistic and nationalistic for taking only the best three country men, or IAAF World Cross Country for taking the best six runners from each country.

Avocados Number wrote:

I ran the elite men's race before it was changed to a team format. Back then, the Bolder Boulder attracted Olympic champions and medalists, world record holders, and lots of terrific runners from lots of countries. Everyone was on an equal footing, with prize money for individual placings and time bonuses that increased with every second -- and, as far as I know, no appearance fees. With the team format, everything was changed to skew the incentives in favor of a few hand-picked American runners. For such a liberal and allegedly international community like Boulder, the team format was a shockingly jingoistic (and arguably racist) change for the worse.

Who Cares wrote:

The womens [sic] cross country champion showed up at this race and some people on this forum are saying the elite race is not what it used to be.

We've clearly been talking about the competitive depth. The winners (and even the top 3-5) are always standout performers.

Wanna cookie? wrote:

Your flawed logic would mean the Olympic Games is also jingoistic and nationalistic for taking only the best three country men, [sic] or IAAF World Cross Country for taking the best six runners from each country.

You exhibit flawed thinking, they ARE jingoistic and nationalistic!

Third year in Colorado, third year I've run BB 10K. Amazing event, I ran it at an easy tempo pace. (on my running break) At elevation, not an easy course. (I would guess maybe at least 1:15 faster at sea level) I run 37 minutes and get beat by 200 runners!! How many races are that deep, with that kind of quality runners. Funny to how many actually live in Colorado. Reminds me of the state cross country meet in high school, huge packs, elbows and everyone who is someone in Colorado running it.

Wanna cookie? wrote:

Translation: You were another semi-respectable 34:00-minute local guy who thought he was special because he got to run with the 500 or so runners in the "A" wave with the other sub-38:00 runners who were lining up with the elites. There was appearance money for the real elites back then. Your flawed logic would mean the Olympic Games is also jingoistic and nationalistic for taking only the best three country men, or IAAF World Cross Country for taking the best six runners from each country.

You obviously don't know much about the Bolder Boulder. The "A" wave is part of the "citizens" race. The elite men's race was, and is, held separately, several hours later. There were no 34:00-minute guys, local or otherwise, in the elite men's race, nor could any runners participate in the elite men's race by virtue of running a sub-38:00 10k. I'm fairly confident that there was no appearance money for any of the elite men, although expenses were covered; you obviously have no inside knowledge on the subject, so it's really inappropriate for you to pretend otherwise.

The Olympic Games and the IAAF world cross-country championships may be considered "nationalistic" in the sense that they separate out, identify, advantage, and limit athletes based on national affiliation; that's different from "jingoistic," and different also from other senses of "nationalistic." You might want to use this discussion as an opportunity to learn more about those words. Whether it's good for the Olympics and the IAAF world cross-county championships to either limit or permit participation based on national affiliation is a somewhat different, although not unrelated, issue from whether a U.S. road race should do something similar in order to provide greater incentives and visibility for U.S. athletes. I'm guessing that you have the intellectual capacity to understand that distinction, even though your post suggests that you do not see it.

Piss poor performance by the USA runners. and the organizers should assemble a decent american team.. or the africans should be d level africans to match our spoiled brat americans that act like they are studs and get more coverage to make them feel better about themselves.

Piss poor performance from americans.

There are plenty of 10ks in Kenya where only 200 run and noone is as slow as a 37min!

SalukiAlum wrote:

Third year in Colorado, third year I've run BB 10K. Amazing event, I ran it at an easy tempo pace. (on my running break) At elevation, not an easy course. (I would guess maybe at least 1:15 faster at sea level) I run 37 minutes and get beat by 200 runners!! How many races are that deep, with that kind of quality runners. Funny to how many actually live in Colorado. Reminds me of the state cross country meet in high school, huge packs, elbows and everyone who is someone in Colorado running it.

They have nothing better to do in Kenya.

How did Carney do?

Carney placed 6th in 29:02, good race. It was fun watching the Ethiopians crossing the line holding hands with all 3 casually running 28:13!! Vaughn has looked great this track season and in this race, placing 4th in 28:53.

No, those are their 6-mile splits. Nobody came close to breaking 29 minutes, much less "casually running 28:13." Vaughn ran something like 29:56. Only four runners broke thirty minutes. When no Kenyan breaks thirty, and only two Kenyans break thirty-two, it's pretty clear that the race organizers aren't doing much to draw a world-class field.

SalukiAlum wrote:

Carney placed 6th in 29:02, good race. It was fun watching the Ethiopians crossing the line holding hands with all 3 casually running 28:13!! Vaughn has looked great this track season and in this race, placing 4th in 28:53.

And not just this track season, but really all year as he ran that nice half- marathon back in january. I think he's set up well for the U.S. Champs and then races in Europe too.

Thanks, Avocados #, I've been running for 25 years and should have been able to figure that one out, either way good times on that course!

I am not!

areusure? wrote:

There are plenty of 10ks in Kenya where only 200 run and noone is as slow as a 37min!

SalukiAlum wrote:

Third year in Colorado, third year I've run BB 10K. Amazing event, I ran it at an easy tempo pace. (on my running break) At elevation, not an easy course. (I would guess maybe at least 1:15 faster at sea level) I run 37 minutes and get beat by 200 runners!! How many races are that deep, with that kind of quality runners. Funny to how many actually live in Colorado. Reminds me of the state cross country meet in high school, huge packs, elbows and everyone who is someone in Colorado running it.

Plus the whole "Team Colorado" farce to backdoor 6 more US runners into the race because it's a race that is really unappealing to international level foreign runners, especially three from the same country. It's a tourist race put on to run some local runners against mostly C-grade Africans.

I'm not saying its the equivalent to the Olympics or a Kenyan 10K. I'm simply saying right here in the beautiful state of Colorado, its pretty decent 10k up front with some depth.

I'm not talking about elite runners, I'm talking about overall depth of the average runner and 10K time. I think the 10K in Puerto Rico is probably the FASTEST 10K with the ELITE runners.

SalukiAlum wrote:

I'm not talking about elite runners, I'm talking about overall depth of the average runner and 10K time.

Which, yes, is still completely separate from the elite race.