STFU. wrote:
McGurk wrote:Well, you're exactly right.... it is agribusiness throughout both the animal and vegetable food production chain that has caused an ecological disaster. The animal end of things also includes an ethical one too. Personally, I do everything I can to buy locally, seasonally, and organic, and i have a big garden in my backyard that I get most of my veggies from in the summer. As fuel prices rise, I think the shift towards local foods will increase dramatically.
I agree with your post for the most part, but how, if done properly and sustainably, is the farming of animals any more unethical than the farming of plants? This is the part that bothers me most with the vegan arguments. I just don't see it.
Um ever heard of organic? I can find huge displays of organic produce where I shop. I have yet to see any organic meat from animals who died of natural causes. Maybe you just have no clue how food is produced in this country.[/quote]
So when people challenge what you say you prove you are right by calling them names?
The concept of organic has already been implied, or I have missed your point. And there is plenty of organic meat. Do you really think they wait for the crop to keel over an die before they gather them and ship them off to the grocery?
You do not harvest crops after they have died, this consumption can only occur if you shorten, or alter, the plants life or reproductive future. In boths cases, meat or plant material, we are either harvesting (taking without consent) a portion of a living creature or cutting its' life short. Beans, as well as fertilized eggs, are developing offspring which we choose to abort without consent of the parent. Fruits, which intentionally pass their seeds through animal digestive tracts, are meant to be eaten, the plant expects it. On the other hand I do not see the benefit to plants by us harvesting their leaves, spawn, roots....etc.
The problem with the vegan thought, in my mind, is that this repsect for the need to take or force another life is lost. Is there really a difference between forcing plants to grow at nutrient depriving densities and hearding cattle into a manure filled barn? In my opinion no, and it doesn't make either one fair or right with respect to the wholeness of it all, but once we repect that does it matter; we need to eat. Unless you are taking nutrients from life without impeding lifespan, reproduction or form then it really is all the same. Just because you feel the same way animals do, doesn't mean other organisms don't respond to stress as well.
So far you are being too narrow minded, an that is the problem. Stop being so speciist. And please use thoughts and not insults to win arguments.