Heps

What about Navy? They have run well all year so far?

They soundly beat Villanova early on, as well as some other then top-30 ranked teams.

Brown?? Columbia and Navy have solid teams that will make it a 4-way race.

Ind

Macardle

dundee(columbia dude)

yale guy

team

navy

princeton

dartmouth

columbia

Dundee, who is that kid, the only guy I know from Columbia is Sundell. Mcardle has the strength to win easily but the next few spots will be hard to determine and I think the race will be fast, a lot of guys under 25. Individually you are looking at Mcardle, Sundell, Meyer from Yale, Shoemaker, Nicol, Hyde from Cornell along with Dambroksi, Gaudette and Tarpy form Brown. Speaking of Brown, what's up with Emond, he ran 11th here last year or something like that and hasn't run all to well, the exception being Iona. Maybe he is a VC type guy. All the teams mentioned have a shot at winning and destiny is in their own hands. It will come down to who screws up less. I wouldn't put all the money on Dartmouth, we may see some surprises yet. Have a good race out there Ivy Leaguers!

Navy is a good sleeper pick . . . although it depends on how low the Dartmouth second guy (Shoemaker ?). McArdle will get #1, and then its anyone's guess. Columbia has Sundell and Garvie, but I can't say beyond. Princeton is, well, Princeton. If everyone shows up, they can win no problem. The other four Ivies will not be that close. I have a bad feeling my Penn boys will be fighting for DFL with Yale.

Columbia has Sundell (been top 3 the past 2 years I believe), Garvie 9think he was top 10 last year), Dusen (14:30 as a frosh last year), Nash (3:50low 1500), Moncur (won Heps steeple last year). CU and Dartmouth are the teams to beat.

Brown skipped Pre-Nats, apparemtly planning to have a big day on Friday and then let it all hang at Regionals. I think they will push Dartmouth, but end up second. Columbia is third, then Princeton, followed by Navy.

Stop letting your biases get in the way and take a look at the facts (obtained mostly from pre-nats).

Heps Breaks down like this

1) dartmouth is the strong favorite. 5 man average of 24:52 at pre-ncaas is by far the best in the league. even take out mcardle and there 2-5 averaged 25:04 - way better than Columbia's 2-5 average (25:13.7) time and a little better than Princeton's (25:08).

2) 3 other teams are ahead of the others on paper. Columbia, Navy, Princeton.

Columbia 5 man average at pre-ncaas of 2505. Princeton 5 man average of 2506. These two teams have been neck and neck all year - see Paul Short results.

Navy 5 man average at Indiana state on a soggy course was 25:11. They would have most likely beaten Princeton/Columbia easily at Pre-ncaas - look how much faster Indiana ran at Pre-NCAAs versus Indiana State. They were 2nd last year. Don't forget that. They should be 2nd again.

3) 2 other teams have chances of contending for top showings. Brown and Cornell could also both be in the hunt. Brown hasn't run in about a month and traditionally choke big-time. However, they were 3rd at Iona. It's hard to rate them as they haven't run since New Englands. Rojo's cornell team is coming on nicely. Evidently, his 3rd man was 6th in the league two years ago. That's got to scare other coaches as he had two guys under 25 at Pre-NCAAs.

harvard is allright.

Yale and Penn suck as usual.

Don't believe me?

Check the pre-ncaa results or the Ivy League coaches preview:

http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/article.asp?intID=1890

Yale beat Harvard in their dual meet this year. So, it may be a little premature to declare that the mighty bulldog will be bringing up the rear. In other words, if "Harvard is allright", and Yale beat "allright", it's probably inaccurate to say "Yale sucks as usual." Deductive reasoning brought to you by the Transitive Property.

Unless, in your rating system, by "sucks" you mean better than "allright." In which case, you are right.

-kk

Moncur did not win the steeple last year, at least not the fast section, Maximus King ran 8:42 and Colangelo ran 8:56.

sorry, just automatic reaction to previous post

Penn's XC, which has been stuck in the mud for many years, does NOT equate to the track program which is two-time defending champs and kicks Dartmouth's sorry behind.

and Dave Merrick still has the VCP record.

I'm done. They'll finish 8th.

What is Merrick's record? (Not doubting you, just curious)

Attention Cornell: Although you make look like a state school, it does not mean you can redshirt like one:

"Rojo's cornell team is coming on nicely. Evidently, his 3rd man was 6th in the league two years ago. That's got to scare other coaches as he had two guys under 25 at Pre-NCAAs."

----> Yes. Other coaches around the league should be very scared, since Cornell is either violating or has found a loop-hole in Ivy League regulations by having a runner on their team who at one time was a member of the class of 2002.

Looky here:

http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/article.asp?intID=919

If Mr. Van Fleet was a junior in 2000, then what is he still doing around in 2002?!

The cool thing about people talking shit in this league is that none of them have the balls to back it up.

well if red-shirting is a no-no, then how come vinnie was doing it when he was the coach at dartmouth? dennis webster is one green runner that comes to mind. is it possible that he just took the year off? an extended coop work term is a possibility isnt it? oh and before you say anything, the excuse for redshirting webster was that he was taking three engineering courses that semester.

Merrick's record is 23:51. It is the "amateur" or "collegiate" record, as some professionals have evidently run faster. He ran it in 1976 at the IC4A's, and it was equaled once by a fast dude from Penn State who's name escapes me at the moment.

ForeverYoung, the redshirt rule does not apply to medical hardship. Geoff Van Fleet shredded his Achilles in 2001 and took a "medical." You can also leave school entirely for a year also if you want to circumvent the Ivy 4-years-in-4 rule. This happens ALL the time in Ivy football, where athletes get a severe injury freshman or sophomore year and take the medical hardship, enabling them to play a fifth year, rather than rushing back to play. The Harvard QB did this, Penn's top WR did too . . . you get the picture. For track, Tora Harris used this exemption when he left Princeton in 2000 for legitimate personal reasons. He was Heps champ 1998-9 2001-2.

I believe the guy from Penn State was Greg Fredricks.

ForeverYoung,

I don't understand why people like you feel the need bad-mouth people/teams, especially when you obviously are mistaken on the rules in this case. Get your facts straight next time before you speak up.

That said, it is going to be a great meet tomorrow. Go Big Red!

GO Dundee!!!!

navy will win