Disciplining a kid on team (A week before Penn) HELP

You told the kid what would happen if he missed practice and he missed. If you let him run the next time you decide to draw a line with an athlete don't be surprised if athletes cross that line. Do you want that win badly enough to sacrafice your credibilty?

If you are coaching at the high school level, I think you are over-estimating the effect of this potential victory on your career. Take the impact on YOU out of the picture and make the right decision for what's best for the kids both now and in the long run.

I don't think withdrawing the team is the right move, however. This would penalize the other 3 guys. Come up with a consequence that forces him to affirm his commitment to the team in a tangible/visible way.

As a first year coach you are sure to make many mistakes that will be forgotten in the pile of mistakes that you will make throughout your career. You will learn and grow from them if you admit them. Without knowing all the details, I would suggest that your ultimatum wasn't your best move. That kind of thing limits the creativity you can bring to bear on the problem. You want the kid to learn to make better decisions and grow from the experience of being on your team, but you've merely created a situation that almost surely removes him from your influence eventually.

Go back to the drawing board and come up with a consequence that readily communicates this athlete has messed up big time and that is visible to all so that they are aware such behaviors won't be tolerated. Communicate clearly that you are not going to give up on him or any other athlete on the team.

If the athlete refuses to face the consequence, they can cut themselves but do everything you can do to avoid that. Once they are gone, you have lost the ability to influence them further and isn't that want your career as a high school coach is really about?

I would suggest sitting down and just talking to the guy. Chances are there's some extraneous circumstance(s) that are making it difficult for him to go to practice. Maybe school is kicking his ass and he had three projects and a two tests within a week and a half; maybe his girlfriend dumped him. Who knows. Ask him why he's not making it to practice, make it clear that he needs to communicate with you when he feels he can't come, etc. Just be honest and be willing to listen. Talented people with huge goals like your guy usually don't just miss practice because they're lazy; often, there's something going on, so make it your business to find out.

Let us know what you decide to do. For both you and your athlete's sakes, I really hope you don't forbid him from running Penn. That could be an incredible coup for you both.

Thanks for the advice guys.

The kid has a tough life, no parents, lives with grandma..

But we've been the difference, so I thought!

He has huge commitment issues.. He'll go MIA from school for 2-3 days sometimes at a time and no one can find him. Then he will come back and be committed for that week. (This is an inner-city school BTW)

The kids all want him to run badly... but it is not fair for him to just show up when he pleases!

I would devour his liver with fava beans and a nice Chianti.

I would tell him he's not running at Penn.

Hopefully, he mans up and talks to you, apologizing and what not. If he is able to do that, then give him the chance to run.

If not, tell him he'll be missing the meet, and the rest of the season if he continues to skip meets.

Make sure you tell him that colleges would be willing to pay for him to come run for him, and blowing away something big like this is just plain stupid.

My high school junior year had a senior guy who ran sub 14 in the 110 hurdles/I'm not sure about the 300m Hurdles but somewhere sub 40. He came to practice 2-4 times a week, and didn't even run at regionals. Pure waste of talent...

As my old coach would have said, "You have to chose the way you are going to lose now."

In other words, are you going to go back on your word and let the kids see that you can do as you please so long as you have talent? Or are you going to do as you said, kick him from the team, put your 5th man in, and lose the race?

I would go for putting that 5th man in. Sure you probably wont win without your stud, but the other 4 boys get the Penn experience, the 5th man actually gets rewarded for always being there by getting to run now, and your team has a concrete example for the way things work under their new coach.

Dude, you would be the biggest dick of a coach to do this. your reputation would suffer from missing Penn AND the consensus among the kids that you're a dick. It doesn't matter if you had this 'rule,' everyone will hate you because they'll see the high schooler's side of the story.

Please do not deny this kid and especially the other three deserving kids the wonderful chance to compete at Penn relays.

Dude, you would be the biggest dick of a coach to do this. your reputation would suffer from missing Penn AND the consensus among the kids that you're a dick. It doesn't matter if you had this 'rule,' everyone will hate you because they'll see the high schooler's side of the story.

Please do not deny this kid and especially the other three deserving kids the wonderful chance to compete at Penn relays.

Let him run, it'd be a nice lesson to the kids that you can do whatever you want so long as you're talented/sucessful

you don't even need to spell successful right

If I were in that situation, I would probably sit the kid down and have a one on one- find out what the excuse is, if he understood you when you told him he had 2 strikes, and if he is genuinely apologetic for crossing the line. If he is apologetic, then you should make him apologize to his teammates or some such thing. But that's just me.

Another way you could approach the situation: think what the great coaches would do in your situation. I'm talking about the coaches who were renowned not just for their success, but were universally respected as men. What would guys like Bowerman have done?

I can't speak for them, but I can tell you what my high school coach would have done- the kid would not run. And we had a fantastic coach, won numerous individual and team state titles... but I can guarantee the kid would not run. We in fact had a similar type of disciplinary issue at a meet early in one outdoor season. A couple of guys on our 4x800 squad kept the whole bus waiting, and the coach promptly said Penn was off the table. And he stuck by it. Keep in mind- we had won our state xc that year, and we had 3 seniors on the 4x800 team and had a legitimate shot at top 3 at Penn.

It's a tough situation, Coach, and I don't have a good solution for you. There are negatives no matter which route you take. Of course, handling this kind of situation is one reason why coaches make the big dough...

I'm reminded of some advice I got, early in my career: "Never make a rule that you would not be willing to enforce against your best guy at the worst possible time."

Joe Newton has rules that he enforces with absolute consistency. His kids know this and adjust accordingly. But I'll grant that there's a huge difference between his (and his kids') situation, and that of you and your athlete.

Good luck. Will you let us know how you decide to proceed?

tough deal - but you've got 3 other athletes that are faced with participating in or missing out on arguably the biggest track meet in the USA - a lifetime opportunity. And THE biggest crowd support.

I'd make the exception (hindsight don't make a hammer down statement) that effects 3 athletes vs and/or including the 1. You are not gonna change his 'commitment' behavior in one fell swoop, given his background.

You think missing the meet is gonna teach him something vs going to the meet - there is nothing like the Penn Relays. The answer to that from me - is - I don't know. However I would decide on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion.

tough deal - but you've got 3 other athletes that are faced with participating in or missing out on arguably the biggest track meet in the USA - a lifetime opportunity. And THE biggest crowd support.

I'd make the exception (hindsight don't make a hammer down statement) that effects 3 athletes vs and/or including the 1. You are not gonna change his 'commitment' behavior in one fell swoop, given his background.

You think missing the meet is gonna teach him something vs going to the meet - there is nothing like the Penn Relays. The answer to that from me - is - I don't know. However I would decide on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion.

You didn't do a good enough job motivating this kid to adhere to team standards. That will hold you back in terms of coaching success far more than not winning at Penn Relays.

Red Glare wrote:

You didn't do a good enough job motivating this kid to adhere to team standards. That will hold you back in terms of coaching success far more than not winning at Penn Relays.

With all due respect Red, every other kid shows up. He had the same problems with the basketball and football teams and actually was kicked off both.

He didn't show up to practice today so I'm putting another kid in his spot. Do we have a shot of winning our race still? Prob not.. but I think not letting him run in Penn will be a pretty big deal in itself as he seemed pretty excited about it.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

With no undue disrespect, that's not the point. Motivational methods always have to be tailored to the individual. The football and basketball coaches didn't want to take the time or trouble to figure out how to reach him. And maybe it'll turn out that he just can't be reached right now, but based on what you've said so far I wouldn't say that you've even scratched the surface with him. You have to sell him on your vision for his success and how it contributes to something bigger than himself. Get him so excited for the possibilities that he doesn't want to miss practice instead of feeling that showing up isn't important.

puddle of consciousness wrote:

I would suggest sitting down and just talking to the guy. Chances are there's some extraneous circumstance(s) that are making it difficult for him to go to practice. Maybe school is kicking his ass and he had three projects and a two tests within a week and a half; maybe his girlfriend dumped him. Who knows. Ask him why he's not making it to practice, make it clear that he needs to communicate with you when he feels he can't come, etc. Just be honest and be willing to listen. Talented people with huge goals like your guy usually don't just miss practice because they're lazy; often, there's something going on, so make it your business to find out.

I agree with this.

If he is missing due to something with the team, or you, then that is on your shoulders not his.

If you had given me an ultimatum like that when I was in high school then I would have told you to GFY, would not have shown up either and running was all that I had in high school.

Red Glare wrote:

With no undue disrespect, that's not the point. Motivational methods always have to be tailored to the individual. The football and basketball coaches didn't want to take the time or trouble to figure out how to reach him. And maybe it'll turn out that he just can't be reached right now, but based on what you've said so far I wouldn't say that you've even scratched the surface with him. You have to sell him on your vision for his success and how it contributes to something bigger than himself. Get him so excited for the possibilities that he doesn't want to miss practice instead of feeling that showing up isn't important.

Your right Red.. I guess showing up at his house on 3-4 occasions wasn't me reaching out to him. I guess putting a huge Penn Relays banner outside my classroom isn't motivating to these kids. I guess the fact that he is top 5 in the country in his event wasn't motivating for him. I guess driving him down to the college meet with a few other guys the other day and showing him what he could be doing in a few years isn't motivating. You have all the answers