Is it OK to BANDIT a race?

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Surprise!,

You're wrong. It's stealing. The road would NOT be closed to traffic or monitored for traffic if the race weren't going on. No good. It's bad. Getting a free ride when it isn't deserved.

It isn't illegal, and it isn't stealing. If it was, you could get arrested for larceny or whatever the charge would be.

I'm not "justifying" it to make it "right", I'm simply saying it isn't illegal.

I do agree it's unethical however.

It's wrong!

It's OK!

It's Wrong!

It's OK!

In the race I work with the police ask us each year if they are to remove runners without numbers because in their eyes it is illegal and they will remove people...now I doubt they will get charged with anything but they say it is illegal...

Surprise! wrote:

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Surprise!,

You're wrong. It's stealing. The road would NOT be closed to traffic or monitored for traffic if the race weren't going on. No good. It's bad. Getting a free ride when it isn't deserved.

It isn't illegal, and it isn't stealing. If it was, you could get arrested for larceny or whatever the charge would be.

I'm not "justifying" it to make it "right", I'm simply saying it isn't illegal.

I do agree it's unethical however.

I agree. What state, city or nation has legal rules regarding this. I imagine if it was brought to court by a big race a judge would throw it out. Seems like it's more a matter of sub-culture de facto practice. In that case, it's more a matter of ethics (what is supposed to be done) than law (what must be done). No society would recognize what MUST be done in road racing. It's not pertinent to the goings-ons of society at large. Now, if a case of theft were brought to court, that's a different matter.

Besides, there are a few things brought up...is this a good or a service? If there are physical goods taken, that's theft. However, we tried to hammer this out before...what service is the person taking advantage of? It's sort of a gray area. There is a sense of something being wrong about it, but, putting it into words is not so easy.

If a race is held on a public street, you can be darn sure I do not have a problem running as a bandit. It is a public street and my tax $ pays for it!

Those are busts than can make a cop's career.

It is OK. Road racing today caters to the penguin masses in order to fund a bunch of non-American runners (if you are any type of legal citizen or contributing to the economic strength of your given region of residence in the US through work and expenditures of your profits I consider you to be an American) who take the money Americans put up in race fees and bring it back to their homeland to fund their contrymen/our competitors! So you as John Q. Taxpayer who is paying through the nose to live in America and decides to ghost run a race a couple of times should not feel bad.

I have only done this once at TCM, using the race as a training run (17 miles) to pace a buddy up a gradual hill by UST. I dropped out two miles before the finish and did not partake in any of the post race goodies, drinks on the course, or use a port-a-potty afterwards.

Here are some guidelines:

1) dont dare take postrace food

2) dont do this regularily

3) pull out of the race no closer than 400m from the chute

and

4) dont be a jerk and start in the first few rows of a major race (200 or more +)

The Bottom Line is that if you are a dirt poor person then go for it but sparingly. Even I do not have respect for people who can ghost run a race yet afford to buy their buddies beers after the race. Ghost Racing is only okay if your economic need necessitates it and/or you are helping a friend through a race.

Much as it pains me to say it, I must again side with Willy. It is theft, it's morally bankrupt (vs. financially like the original poster), but it would be difficult to prosecute. It could likely be prosecuted under a theft of services charge, depending on the area's statutes, but the real question is "Is it right to do?" and clearly the answer is "No." That should be your guide.

And if you're a good enough runner, you may have a way around it by asking race management for a comped entry, they may say "yes." Even if you're not such a good runner, perhaps you can plead hardship.

Wayne

"If a race is held on a public street, you can be darn sure I do not have a problem running as a bandit. It is a public street and my tax $ pays for it!"

Then go run on it some other time. You didn't pay for the police to close the street or pay for someone to find volunteers to work street corners to stop traffic. Your stealing from the race director and since most races donate to charity, well, then your just being a jerk. Karma will find you!

When I used to do it, I would:

1) ask the race direction...they really are in control of the situation. More often than not, they knew me and felt, if anything, I would help others by keeping folks from running the wrong courses or making stupid mistakes.

2) try to do it in such a way so as to make myself invisible.

3) Let others that I might be competing against (plus or minues 1-2 minutes) know I'm ghosting after I've already cleared it with the race officials.

4) run the race before or after the "race" has finished/started. That way you get the benefit of closed, marked courses but you aren't interferring with the event.

5) ask the RD if you can run if at a reduced rate if you just run and don't take anything and make sure NOT to take a finish tag. Sometimes you can get into a race for a few dollars this way. Works a lot.

KCTrack wrote:

After getting heavely involved with several races I have seen how much work and $$ go into races...without entry fees you have no race so I say no...I have run many races as workouts and paid for the race for the competition, saftey, and food after words...you have to decide if it is worth it...if not do a hard run somewhere else or better yet volunteer...

6) that reminds me...call the RD beforehand and say, "Hey, I'm broke but I want to run...can I do some work in exchange for the reg. fee being comped?" Be sure to talk to the person in charge. Time-banking is the way of the future!

Or, you can get your shit together and do it the correct way.

where's that ass don malen when you need a good banditing thread? as we've heard time and again about him, people get really upset at bandits. you are breaking the rules set forth. if you want to get in a run, go find yourself a nice measured route and run on your own. otherwise, pay up and run the race.

Are you secretly Stater of the Obvious? These are ethical alternatives. The original concept is assumed to be an option Dina.

There are no alternatives. You pay the entry fee then run. How tough is this concept?

will wrote:

Are you secretly Stater of the Obvious? These are ethical alternatives. The original concept is assumed to be an option Dina.

I am in complete agreement with Flagpole on this one. As a director or many races in my community, bandits are probably my biggest pet peeve. And in this town, many of them don't even have the understanding to pull out before crossing the finish line.

If you've ever been involved in directing a race you would understand how much work and effort goes into it. It's not something you just throw together over a week or so. DO NOT bandit a race ... EVER! I have run tons of races and have paid for every one except for a few that I've received a comped entry to. Still, I was a legal, registered runner.

If you can't afford to spend $15 that goes toward a very deserving charity, then volunteer to help with the race. I promise it will give you a different perspective and you will think twice about being a bandit again.

Don't forget to stuff yer duffelbag with goodies at the finish line!

b0B

It's not a hard concept at all. Are these others that difficult that you don't get them? Remember, "fixed-price commodities" are not absolutes in the world...we just act like they are here in the US.

I agree. What gives me the right not to pay when everyone alse does? What if 500 runners show up and they all have some lame excuse not to pay the entry fee? And, what if someday nobody puts on road races? Think about it, all that training and no place to race!