Coach Jay Johnson: What happened to just running?

Anyone ever heard of Juaquim Cruz, he used to do a circuit with lots of "drills" and ran a decent 800/1500. Any added stength without added bulk is going to help alot, every little bit add up. I used to coach a 400 hurdler and told him if he would just improve one tenth of a second per hurdle, one second in a 400 hurdle race.

Yep, top European runners, even marathoners (Rothlin, Baldini), also do this type of work. The Gouchers were doing it in that Nike video series they did a few years ago. Pretty much all top collegiate runners do something of the sort.

Still calling it like it is-- PLACEBO EFFECT. Lets "do something special" cause the coach says so and he's right-- it must work. Lets wear one of those Phiten necklesses cause Paula and the Gouchers wear it. Lets throw around medicine balls cause we saw Shalane do it in some hardcore video. Lets throw our arms up in the air, twist around, and kick our legs, cause we saw the whole Ethiopian team do it. Lets take this sugar pill cause the coach says it will make us faster.

I've done drills and plyometric stuff off and on over the years and have ocassionally gotten hurt/tweaked muscles from doing it (and know others who have too, including a college girl who tore cartilage in her knee and had to get surgery). This idea that it makes you stronger and less injury prone is a bunch of bull. It's all in the mind, if you're lucky enough to stay healthy, which of course is better than no benefit at all. And this isn't about teaching and learning proper plyometric and drill form.... ocassionally you step funny, twist your leg funny, or have an accident, and BOOM, you're hurt. A large part of being an elite and performing is simply getting to the starting line healthy. If you have a problem with injuries, jog easier on your easy days to recover better. Eat well, sleep well. Do the things that are safe and normal to the body (= running is normal). Stress the body in unusual ways to get better, but not in excess (~2 hours of drills and tossing medicine balls!).

If I had the phone number to all those stupid guys who coach world class athletes I would give them to you so you could phone them and share your superior wisdown with them.

I have to agree with agree to a point. Watching some of these guys roll around doing hurdle drills on the floor twisting their knees, back, etc. seems like an accident/injury waiting to happen. I also don't see the benefit in contorting your body to do scorpins, eagles, or whatever they are called. In the attempt to get stonger, or more flexible it seems like a lot of unjust joint wrenching.

Hey, placebo effect is better than no effect at all. Lots and lots of things give a placebo effect. But as far as physiologically enhancing performance, nope, but running more will. Show me the research that drills have a physiological benefit.

For years I was taught and did, and have taught an easy warm jog followed by easy stretching - known today as static stretching and never had an athlete injured or too sore from static stretching. Now if I follow the hot trends of a dynamic warmup - I myself struggle with the movements that are said to be superior to traditional stretching and feel sore after going through them. The kids also seem slow to catch on to the movements and I have actually had kids that have needed to take some down time because of excess soreness/minor strains/pulls/etc.

Runners are the only athletes that seem to have such disdain for strength and mobility work. Running isn't a perfect activity. Some muscles are developed more than others. Furthermore, most runners spend the better portion of the day sitting slumped over at a desk. Many peoples days consist of almost entirely of sitting and a little bit of running. This certainly has its consequences on the way your muscles and joints function. Strength and mobility work can undo many of the postural and muscle imbalances that result from the huge lack of variation our bodies get in terms of everyday activities.

I have to disagree with I agree with Agree to Disagree.

1) Consistent training begats improvement.

2) Injuries kill consistency.

3) If drills help decrease injuries and increase athleticism (Cooks's statement - I don't remember the last time one of my kids had a stress fracture), then why not do them?

4) Some people use basketball or other activities to effectively stimulate the same muscles. In my mind, all these drills are is a less-stressful, less injury-filled way to do it.

5) See #1.

Always great to get the illiterate perspective on things. You doing something WRONG doesn't negate the real benefit others can get from doing it RIGHT.

My coach always taught me banging my head against a cement wall was the best way to get ready for the 2mile.

Then one day someone came along and suggested I go run for 45 minutes. Man were my legs sore the next day. I had to actually take time off from banging my head against the wall because that damn running made me sore.

Just idiots on here sometimes.

Illiterate? You have no idea. Why don't you tell us what those "real benefits" are? A sprinter practices over and over and over again, and guess what? They still ocassionally tweak their hamstring and pull up lame. Why? Because explosive power is very likely to hurt you, even if you do it RIGHT.

It's all right there, it's plainly clear that you're illiterate. You can't even write decently so there's little chance that you have any insight into more complex concepts. One day you might get a clue, but it won't be this day. Chances are it won't be in the next several days, either.

Actually stunned to find a meaningful thread here. A knowledge of physiology needs to be tempered with a hard look at the data. I am not convinced there is much reason at all to support 2h sessions of drills for any reason. I believe though this approach plays well to the obsessive personality type (both coach and athlete) and ultimately makes that 'core' problem worse. Recent data on OCD shows that repeating a compulsion only reinforces it. In other words, the hole gets dug even deeper. We need to consider this when we develop a training plan, sorting the genuinely useful from the inevitably ruinous talisman.

Not to go Emperor's New Clothes on you all but Flanagan didn't bust out a 30 whatever 10000m because she did drills. Cook recognized she needed to A) get faster top speed to drop her distance marks and B) stay in one piece while managing to train her ass off for her best event. These were her only obstacles in the past, not the absence of 120 mile training weeks or heralded CNS stimulation with a 5kg ball. The bottom line is all of these drills can be useful but are a double-edged sword for an obsessive athlete. You must subtract costs from benefits and here the costs can be many aside from torn cartilage. Coaches should be looking for efficient use of time, not just the filling of time. And we don't want our practices, drills or mileage totals, to be like happy hour at the pub.

One more thing, just an aside: RE was an outdated and rather misguided concept almost from the start.

Lester Bangs wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

I think Cook, Vig, Jay, etc, are simply doing what I'm doing...

Oh yeah that must be why they coach successful people... they probably just listen to Alan.

That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying we all think outside the box. I'm been preaching on here that runners should strength train, do plyos, do the extra stuff that 99% of other athletes do for a LONG time.

Jay, Cook, Vig, etc, can get it across to you guys better because they have the big name. Maybe I should just write a book, put out a dvd, go talk at expos, etc....

Alan

goomb wrote:

Also, ever watch a training video from the Ethiopian camps? They do hours of drills too! Fascinating...

they do drills over there? no way... i don't believe it, is this after they run 6 miles to school and 6 miles back from school? LOL

Not BATMAN

You can't even write decently so there's little chance that you have any insight into more complex concepts.

Petty and laughable. Again, you have no idea.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Lester Bangs wrote:

Oh yeah that must be why they coach successful people... they probably just listen to Alan.

That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying we all think outside the box. I'm been preaching on here that runners should strength train, do plyos, do the extra stuff that 99% of other athletes do for a LONG time.

Jay, Cook, Vig, etc, can get it across to you guys better because they have the big name. Maybe I should just write a book, put out a dvd, go talk at expos, etc....

Alan

World class runners have been doing various plyos/strength training, etc. since the beginning of professional running.

It's not thinking outside the box.

The truth is a lot of the stuff they do is useless for running.

Some of the stuff is very useful though.

Just use common sense. Med ball throws, plyos, some strength training- all likely to have big benefits.

Various drills where you swing your arms around or lift your knees or whatever- not likely to do anything except maybe act as a dynamic warm up. Same thing with lunges and the like.

goomb wrote:

Also, ever watch a training video from the Ethiopian camps? They do hours of drills too! Fascinating...

Kenyans too - many groups do 20min after each session, or make it one of their 3 sessions a day.