ACC Men's 3000 DQ -- Cost VT the team title

classy classy classy wrote:

VT assistant coach reportedly emailing all the acc coaches and whining about the call. should grow and grow a pair - and then lose his job.

Ben Thomas has been e-mailing all the ACC coaches with an e-mail which mirrors the letsrun post pointing out specific photos on the Hokie site and links to a youtube video.

Suck it up Thomas. Your boy cheated. And was caught in the act. If he hadn't cheated by pushing the FSU runner out of the way, he doesn't get out to run down Martinez, and FSU still wins the meet. The only way VT could have won the meet was by cheating their way to a 3000m victory. Good on the officials for having the guts to make the right call on the home team.

Student-athletes and coaches caught up in a heated battle for a team championship. How much of the behavior can be explained by that? Saw some but not all. Some of the behavior went beyond what can be attributed to heated competition.

VT throws coach verbally berating any official he could find after the meet, whether the official was involved in the DQ call or not. The officials in our sport deserve much better.

FSU head coach loudly and excessively complaining about incidental indoor contact in mile and 3k when for years his athletes have done more than their fair share was beyond appropriate.

And VT distance coach's video actually shows that if video review was employed the official's call would 'stand as called on the field'.

The video shows that yes, there was incidental contact when the FSU runner tries to move ahead and to the inside. But also, the video shows the VT runner flagrantly shoves towards the FSU runner. The shove was ineffective and no it didnt' affect the outcome of the race. BUT it was a flagrant shove and the official who saw it made the right call.

I respect both programs and all the coaches involved, even the ones who were out of line. But that's just how I see it.

in poor taste wrote:

Suck it up Thomas. Your boy cheated. And was caught in the act. If he hadn't cheated by pushing the FSU runner out of the way, he doesn't get out to run down Martinez, and FSU still wins the meet. The only way VT could have won the meet was by cheating their way to a 3000m victory. Good on the officials for having the guts to make the right call on the home team.

The video and images certainly shed some light on the situation ... do you disagree? And it didn't seem like any "cheating" or DQ worthy offenses were committed, from my point of view, but it's possible another angle could prove otherwise. Hopefully this prompts an investigation into a video review system by the ACC.

Why weren't the officials moving lapped runners out in to lane 2?

Maybe a different angle would show something different but from that video angle, totally bullshit call.

I'm curious as to whether the anti-VT postings are all from the same person or just a small collection of people from the same school.

From that video, it looked as if he didn't like being passed and he used his hands to get back in front of him.

Now he beat that runner going away but he should have had to go around him on the outside to pass him back and may not have won the race.

Under NFL replay rules, I wouldn't over turn the call.

Throwin Bows wrote:

in poor taste wrote:

Suck it up Thomas. Your boy cheated. And was caught in the act. If he hadn't cheated by pushing the FSU runner out of the way, he doesn't get out to run down Martinez, and FSU still wins the meet. The only way VT could have won the meet was by cheating their way to a 3000m victory. Good on the officials for having the guts to make the right call on the home team.

The video and images certainly shed some light on the situation ... do you disagree? And it didn't seem like any "cheating" or DQ worthy offenses were committed, from my point of view, but it's possible another angle could prove otherwise. Hopefully this prompts an investigation into a video review system by the ACC.

The video shown is not acceptable since 1. it was home video taken by VT students/staff, not the official ACC video, and 2. the view of the incident is obstructed by the lap counter.

As for the photos, it is interestingly convinient that VT "only" has a photo of Leeder supposedly elbowing Mulherin yet no picture from 5m later with Mulherin's hand squarely on Leeder's back. You could take still pictures in any distance race from the weekend and it would show some sort of incidental contact. When you look at the photos though, you do see that Leeder is a step AHEAD of Mulherin. Combinded with the video it is obvious that Mulherin did not have enough room to get through on the inside of Leeder, so, instead of dropping back and going AROUND the outside he decided to violently shove Leeder out of the way so he could run up the inside. This is CHEATING. If you don't have space to make a move on the inside you can just throw someone out of the way. Incidental contact occurs all the time in racing but BLATANT fouls like this need to be called.

notice 3 laps out Leeder cut Mulherin off to get in front. After watching the video and seeing the video I don't see any warrant for DQ, Ive seen much worse in 800m races and no DQ.

As for the suposed actions of the VT coaches. I think there frustration is warrentanted. I's be pissed too. Not just an idividual title lost but the whole team title as well.

But thats the ACC for you. total garbage. Nothing new

part of indoors is the pushing and shoving. that's what makes it fun. this is the softest dq i have ever seen.

just another observer wrote:

notice 3 laps out Leeder cut Mulherin off to get in front. After watching the video and seeing the video I don't see any warrant for DQ, Ive seen much worse in 800m races and no DQ.

As for the suposed actions of the VT coaches. I think there frustration is warrentanted. I's be pissed too. Not just an idividual title lost but the whole team title as well.

But thats the ACC for you. total garbage. Nothing new

Blind. Watch again. Leeder get's by Mulherin on the outside with 500m to go. He did not cut him off and Mulherin didn't even break stride.

road rashed wrote:

part of indoors is the pushing and shoving. that's what makes it fun. this is the softest dq i have ever seen.

No. This isn't Roller Derby. Sure, there is contact. Believe me, I have run my fair share of ACC 3ks. Here is my opinion, as a former ACC Champion in the 3k:

It looks to me that the VT runner would have solidly won the race had he just stuck to running. The "cut-in" did not look very bad to me, granted it was hard to see. Either way, that was a solid push, and that is not allowed. Rules are rules. End of story.

As for the coaches. They have a right to be angry and should appeal the call, both sides. There is NO room for blatant profanity, threats and screaming. That is childish and offensive. Now that I am in the working world, i don't go around screaming profanities at people who do not agree with me, and their job should be no different.

There should be punishments.

Homestretch Observer wrote:

The video shown is not acceptable since 1. it was home video taken by VT students/staff, not the official ACC video...

You're suggesting that VT somehow doctored or tailored the video? Video is video. Either it shows the incident or it doesn't. Your second point about the obstructed view is valid, however.

Homestretch Observer wrote:

If you don't have space to make a move on the inside you can just throw someone out of the way.

Based on this video (the only one I've seen thus far), it appears Leeder attempted to cut in on the Mulherin with only a half-stride cushion, which would either cause a collision or force Mulherin to break stride. Mulherin rightfully defended his space. Leeder was making the move, not Mulherin, so the onus is on him to make sure he has enough of a lead before cutting in. Until a different video surfaces that shows something different, that's what the hard evidence supports. Also, the video clearly shows that Leeder is never propelled further than the inside of lane two, so you can take your "stiff armed Leeder into lane 3" bullshit from earlier in this thread and shove it up your ass.

I'm glad he got DQ'ed. Mulherin is and always will be a douche.

TK1451 wrote:

Also, the video clearly shows that Leeder is never propelled further than the inside of lane two, so you can take your "stiff armed Leeder into lane 3" bullshit from earlier in this thread and shove it up your ass.

You lost all credibility with the end of this statement. Show some class, dude.

leeder was always getting pushed around in grade school.... hes tired of it...

Is there an NCAA rule that says lapped runners must move into lane 2? If so it is pure stupidity. If not, then why would anyone in their right mind want to move to lane 2 and why would any lead runner want runners jumping "out"? Hold your lane at all times.

Firstly, any arguement about video evidence is moot since the ACC does not allow video replay in appeals. However, in international compeition when video replay is used, it must be from an OFFICIAL media feed, not just some random video camera from the stands. So, even if video evidence were allowed, it MUST be from the ACCselect video feed. And, since the view is obstructed on the video you keep refering to, you do not have enough evidence to overturn the ruling of the official who made the call and the head referee who UPHELD the call.

Leeder was PAST Mulherin on the outside of lane one when the icident occured. Mulherin did not break stride at any time so it is clear that Leeder did not impede him. Leeder simply got by Mulherin before Mulherin could respond. Once Mulherin realized he didn't have enough running room to get by, he decided to illegally make space by shoving Leeder and causing him to break stride. The official called the foul. The foul held up even after the appeal from the Tech coach. Case closed. Mulherin took a chance and got burned for it. But, from the sounds of it, this is typical racing strategy from Mulherin who is a notoriously dirty runner so no one is really feeling to sorry for him.

And luckily for him, no one from FSU has called on him to be reprimanded by the ACC or his AD for his comments made to the FSU sprint coach after the race.

I watched this live and when he was DQed I would have thought that the DQ would have come from the O'Lionaird fall or the fact than he acted like a unsportsman like assclown after the race. If Wyner can get DQed for his celebration and bowing, then what this VT kid did merits a DQ, even if it was for something else.

Also, If you want to talk about costing VT the title, well had O'Lionaird not been knocked down, there is a good chance FSU would have had the points they needed to still win. Either way, the only man really benefiting from the whole mess of a race is John Martinez.

Can anyone explain what happened after the race? What did the VT runner say to the sprints coach, and why was the sprints coach even involved?

As a former ACC athlete for one of the real ACC schools with class - NOT VaTech, FSu or Miami - I know that the athlete communicated through the coach. Only hoods and thugs start screaming and yelling.