Eating disorders encouraged?!?

I only read the first page, but it's not just about a number of calories. Rather, you (and your coach) should be more concerned with how you get those calories. Basically, make sure to get enough fat and protein then vary the rest of your calories with high quality carbohydrates according to the amount that you are training.

It is worth your time to read a book on the subject. Matt Fitzgerald gave his input in one of the training talks on this website that you can still listen to.

I know Patti, it's never easy. Part of the problem is that it's hard to re-wire the brain once you've accepted a certain dogma or have been following something for so long.

A bit off-point, but I've had an obese client who has NEVER in her lifetime ate a vegetable. Her mom was obese and she was raised on convenience foods and thus as an adult ate nothing but convenience foods...pre packaged, fast food, fish sticks, etc.

Both the obese and the anorexic are similar in that they have an unhealthy relationship with food. In fact you don't even have to be at either of those extremes to have an unhealthy relationship with food.

Alan

How much chicken and cow should you eat if you're running 10 miles a day? an extra chicken or two? an extra 4 slices of beef? if i'm already consuming one chicken a day should I start consuming 3 chickens to repair my beaten down muscle?

FYI Shalane Flanagan is 113 lbs and 5'5 (at least according to NBC Olympic website). and she got the bronze medal and looks tiny. so I think your weight is fine.

I am a male, was 5'9 140 my freshman year and ran very well. I am built like nick symmonds, and I felt great when i was running with a lean, but well-muscled body. My problem began when I was entering my sophomore year. I saw a pic of some elites, and marvelled at the beauty of their lean frames. I wanted to run as fast and look just as lean as they did. I lost 20 pounds and cut my eating in half. I was told by my teamates how amazing I looked, and I kept going. I ran faster initially, then the injuries smacked me down. I am 22 now and am running again, but it never feels the same. Do not subject yourself to this form of cruelty, train hard, do your best, eat what you want. Remember everything in moderation, I only wish I could escape from the past demons, and view food as a true friend again.

Yeah, you're right it does take time re-wire the brain. Especially, for somebody like moi...I'm such a hard head...."Hello Marblehead", (MA).

Hmm, let's see...I think it took me about 3-4 years before I would let myself have food in the house. I was so afraid I would binge...so I didn't want food in the house.

I started to eat at least once a day...whatever meal, say breakfast. I'd eat out someplace and make it special. Ya'know take my time and take in all that would be around me. I had to learn to take the focus off food, but yet have the food be the focus...ya'know? Sort of like fine dining.

Or I'd have lunch someplace special. I would celebrate, my own little par-tae.

The next step for me was to eat at home, though it would be mostly take-out. I would have "special" placemates, dishes, glasses, flowers even and celebrate. I paid attention to the details of things...table cloths, napkins...to help the joy of the meal. It was important to me. I had to find the joy beyond the food...because food had become the enemy...and I had to make friends/peace with it...lol! Duh! Or I'd die.

I proceeded to the next step...I taught myself how to cook. I had a few basics down, boiling water, frying eggs and bacon with homefries. I taught myself how to really put a meal together. I followed the macrobiotic diet for years and I learned to cook through putting my meals together with this diet. (I found both the cooking and the diet very healing)

Eventually, I opened a health food store with a deli and did catering. And I made up my own dishes to serve. I found it rewarding and refreshing.

Now all of the above wasn't a thought out plan. I didn't have one. I just went along one day after another. Like running in a race when you are having a struggle and all you can do is pick up your right foot and put it down, then pick up your left foot and put it down...a step at a time.

I took one day at a time and built on it. I layered it over and over, again and again, day after day.

D1 freshman wrote:

but I don't want to leave with like psychological problems. I kind of just want to get as fast as is reasonable. and I really don't believe that eating less will help me. I think training smarter might. But he just uses getting smaller as a cop out of giving us individualized workouts. He almost nearly gives everyone the same workout, and less developed runners, just try to survive workouts, where better runners aren't working hard enough. I was simply wondering if its normal for all distance runners to be restricting their eating all of the time?

sounds like my x-college program...lmao.

In response to "I was simply wondering if its normal for all distance runners to be restricting their eating all of the time?" I think the answer should be no...

But i wonder what the true statistic of say, the all-americans at ncaa's (top40ish) and how many of them restrict to be at their weight versus how many are just genetically gifted with the ideal leanness

Sad to see that D1 distance running hasn't changed in 30 years. I ran on scholarship for a Big 10 school back in the early 80's. Had a coach who weighed us EVERY DAY...and once told me to lose 7 pounds before nationals (I was already 95 pounds), and nationals was only 2 weeks away. I starved myself just to 'make weight,' and I swear my coach was happier with the numbers on the scale than with anything else. I ran terribly at nationals, but at least I was skinny (in his eyes). My entire team was either anorexic or bulimic or both, but we were one of the best teams in the country, so it didn't matter. Sickening then, and sickening now. It creates lasting physical and psychological damage, and coaches like that should be investigated and fired.

uhhuh wrote:

Sad to see that D1 distance running hasn't changed in 30 years. I ran on scholarship for a Big 10 school back in the early 80's. Had a coach who weighed us EVERY DAY...and once told me to lose 7 pounds before nationals (I was already 95 pounds), and nationals was only 2 weeks away. I starved myself just to 'make weight,' and I swear my coach was happier with the numbers on the scale than with anything else. I ran terribly at nationals, but at least I was skinny (in his eyes). My entire team was either anorexic or bulimic or both, but we were one of the best teams in the country, so it didn't matter. Sickening then, and sickening now. It creates lasting physical and psychological damage, and coaches like that should be investigated and fired.

i am just astonished every time i read something like this...how could you sleep at night?

Isn't this one of the rumors as to the cause of Craig Lake's firing, I mean, stepping down?

uhhuh wrote:

....It creates lasting physical and psychological damage, and coaches like that should be investigated and fired.

I thought that the last dinosaur coach to insist on weighing the women runners on his team was Tom Heinonen at Oregon.

The fact that there are still coaches weighing college runners is sickening and completely objectionable.

A reputable coach told me that weighing athletes is no longer allowed by NCAA rules. I only wish this were the case when I was a college runner.

Spider wrote:

2. Rather than log all they eat, require they eat a certain number of things every day, such as two pieces of fruit, two servings of vegetables, one good protein source. Let the runner eat anything else they want and not record it. But I find (as a middle-aged slowpoke marathoner) that if I do this, then eat whatever I feel like on top of it, I seem to gravitate to a better diet (eat the fruits first, then dessert and junk food later if you feel the need).

Fabulous advice! My personal guideline is very similar, with the addition of monitoring calcium sources.

Anyone have advice on intervening. Our teammate is wasting away despite everyone's careful efforts to get her to see a problem. Nurses, counselors, athltes, coaches all see the same thing, but she is angry with everyone. She is still running well which makes it hard for her to face facts, i guess. Any thoughtful advice is welcome.

I just skimmed the messages but why doesn't the schools at least have the athletes body fat tested. Then everyone would know if they are too skinny already or not!!

not allowed wrote:

A reputable coach told me that weighing athletes is no longer allowed by NCAA rules. I only wish this were the case when I was a college runner.

It's totally hypocritical to think that you need to weigh the girls (and maybe boys) to make them become anorexic.

help?

From my own experience(s) of helping others... and having a food disorder... (My weight dropped to 82 lbs at its peak)it's up to the person if they want help or not.

I know, I know, it's tough...I know how tough it is...I truly do.

When I was in FD I was determined, willful, focused. Which can be a good thing, but when used improperly trouble can brew and things go wary.

And you're right, angry.

Now, for one thing you are dealing with a very tough individual.

Many times it's not an anger about something that can be pinpointed and then it's all better...it's deep seated...it's entrenched in the soul, the being and the heart of the person. I know I was in deep pain for years. So I can imagine she may be in pain.

I would say it's up to her, her parents and family..first to do intervention. Other than that...you may be able to express your concern, but ya really don't have a legal right. Now a coach can take her off the team.

If you can make headway.... please do...but don't expect the person to welcome it. You need to be ever so gentle, loving, compassionate and consistent perhaps for months...and not patronizing in any way.

It will take perservance on your part....you will have to mean it...she will know if you're not sincere....most ED are aware and their survival radar is heightened, very attuned to others.

I know it's tough, it really is tough.

When something is working for you, you don't want to change it. Losing weight is rewarded and praised. It feels good to lose weight...you feel good about yourself.

Let me share a story with you that happened to me.

I had a dad call me to ask me to pray for his daughter. She was just rushed away to the hospital and admitted to the intensive care unit after she collapsed. The doctors told him and his wife said she may not make it through the night. He had heard my story from somebody. We prayed together.

She did make it through the night by the grace of God. (Thank you God).

I talked to the parents over the course of months.

Eventually, she went to a place that specializes in ED and she received the care she needed. We all waited until she wanted to go...it was offered time and time again...we all waited and prayed.

She finally made up her mind and wanted to get better. She went and made progress and did gain more than the weight she needed to live.

The update: She is thriving and back into school. It took at least 5 years.

The first thing is getting food in..for health..vitamins and minerals...brain food...then deal with the other factors. It would be best to deal with them all at the same time....it's a complex process. Lots of people may need to be involved.

Another story.

I had a mom call me to ask advice about her daughter. The daughter was a runner in college. The mom knew the daughter had something amiss, and asked the daughter what was wrong. The daughter confided she had a FD. At first, the mom didn't want to get involved...didn't want to push the daughter away and bascially didn't know what to do.... the mom thought it would pass and thought it would be better to leave it alone.

The mom called me to ask what should she do. I traveled and met with the mom. I said "Your daughter is hugging a toilet. She'd rather hug you....GO TO HER NOW!" GET INVOLVED" "DO NOT DELAY!"

The mom didnt' think she should get involved because the daughter was in senior in college and 21 years old...legal age to care for yourself....I did mention to the mom, "once a mother always a mother". Sometime you just have to hear, even though you know.

Long story short...the mom got involved and together they worked through it as a family. The daughter is now married and expecting a child...and she runs still and she's pleased as punch the mom got involved. The whole family is closer. Now the mom and dad run, too...God is good.

and turkey...you aren't legit.

if you are fast, eat until you are full. just make sure it's not pure shit that goes in and out. only out.

you guys really are setting these kids up for eating disorders. this is running.